[threatofrain]

As a hypothetical employer, should I be allowed to select for people who love programming because my internal metrics say they're an awesome fit? If so, then that's where the fundamental pressure is going to come from.

So we can be on HN and sing "Oh, you do you!" but that won't relieve the fundamental source of pressure.

[bee_rider]

You can, but I think it might be a little hard to do so. I mean it is a well known thing and so people will game it, right? We have people grinding levels leetcode now to trick you. Of course you are probably savvy to that. But who knows what else they’ll do? Getting a good job is a life-changing event, so they are very motivated to trick you…

I love programming. How much? I’ve written a bunch of little programs that nobody else will ever see, just for fun and just for me. Why? I just enjoy doing it. It’s more like knitting than studying. Sometimes it will come in handy—once my boss had an idea an I got to say “oh, I actually implemented that for fun the other day,” which was very funny, but it isn’t intended to be useful and 99% of the time it is just a waste of time.

[shswkna]

If a company’s goal is to bring rockets to mars/solve world transport logistics/create driverless cars/etc/etc, you are not going to care about what is fair or what creates pressure. You will find the persons that can get the job done. Things like preventing burn out or balancing work with personal life will be dealt within the scope of reaching that goal. Many sensitivities in this thread or considerations of whats fair and isn’t, is really irrelevant. What goal is being pursued, and how can it be reached sensibly, is what matters in the end.

[boh]

You can hypothetically do whatever you want, no one in the real world is hiring you because you "love programming".

[asdasdsddd]

That's definitely not true. The whole side project meme was a big thing a while back because employers were specifically looking for people who liked programming so much they do it on the side.

[boh]

A "while back".

[asdasdsddd]

Yes like 5 years ago

[boh]

Without pointing out that what happened five years ago doesn't reflect current priorities, that wasn't really a thing back then either. Unless you're fresh out of college with zero previous experience, your work experience is the only thing that matters. Don't let the feel-good, you-can-do-it, power-through posts fool you, a side project getting you a job is a rarity (unless you're one of the first 10 programmers on a PyTorch level library--and those type of guys usually have careers by the time they work on that stuff).

[okwhateverdude]

I'd argue it is a bit more common than you think, but probably for different reasons than you would assume. It isn't so much the impact of the side project that gets you the job, but more about networking. If you are involved in an am-pro manner in a given FOSS community by actively participating (code, docs, etc) and speaking (blogs, conferences, workshops, etc), your networking opportunities explode. Anecdotally, this is how I landed some really nice gigs, even if that community (and tech) has all but evaporated now. But if you're toiling away on some project and not actively engaging with anyone that would remotely care, your potential employers very likely won't care either unless they are specifically looking for it.

[asdasdsddd]

My data points were from employers, not blog posts.

[treve]

I work at a small company and I do try select for people that create because of internal drive. It doesn't strictly have to be programming, but it tends to be. I agree not every company needs this. It could even be a negative for some type of work.

[zelphirkalt]

The state of software in most places reflects this.