[tonetegeatinst]

This is correct. ATF permit to manufacture and use explosives, and Destructive Devices. Register the destructive device and any made explosives.

Normally each state has an explosives license that you must also have, some of which are almost impossible to obtain unless this is your main job, so hobbyists can't get a permit.

Also destructive devices have to be legal in the state.

And the use of the device has to be recorded via paperwork.

As someone who has an interest in energetics and law, the federal law is pretty reasonable if not just a pain in the ass to handle paperwork wise. The addition of every state having laws you need to comply with in addition can make this pretty easy or upright impossible unless your main day job is working in some mine or something similar.

[magic_smoke_ee]

Had to look it up because I can't remember nitty-gritty details: DD manufacturer under class 10 FFL or class 2 SOT. I imagine the various types of insurance needed to operate such a business are expensive and painful too.

[tonetegeatinst]

Correct. DD manufacturing the separate license from the ATF then an explosive manufacturing license and then if a pipe bomb is constructed it's considered a destructive device not an explosive device and has to be registered on paper as such and then you also need a separate license to use the device and then once used it has to be marked as used on paper.

[giantg2]

And if you have the materials (short pipes, lots of caps, etc) to build the pipe bombs in the same area as your expolsive manufacture without the DD paperwork, you could still be charged with constructive intent. Same as if you have an unbuilt short barrel and a built lower with a stock they have charged people with intent to manufacturer an SBR.

[tonetegeatinst]

Correct.

While I have the ability to read some legal text despite having 0 law education, it still is confusing and hard to interpret stuff.

While I understand the need for regulation, and safety, it seems almost if not impossible to navigate. Unless you have the money to pay for lawyers and someone to handle compliance, its very easy to make a mistake that could kill your career.

So your corporations or large businesses can afford lawyers and compliance consultant people so they ensure they are fine and dandy, but if you rural person wants to build explosives to mess around and experiment and research, their is no way they can afford this unless they are super rich.

Ordinance Labs somehow does this but they are Texas based, and make money off of consulting....so they are a great example of how hard this is. They also are being accused of violating ITAR and EAR which is serious.

[giantg2]

"the federal law is pretty reasonable if not just a pain in the ass to handle paperwork wise"

I mean, that's how they get you. Make it so you have to jump through a ton of hoops, make the penalties to accidentally violating them felonies, then wait. That's how you discourage people from doing something - make the penalties for mistakes so high that people give up. That's part of why you see gun ownership numbers go down in places like NJ while they brag about gun safety laws working. The trick is, the laws like hollowpoint bans didn't actually improve gun safety, it simply reduced the guns per capita by reducing number of people willing to own a gun when harmless mistakes can ruin your life.

[tonetegeatinst]

Correct.

I believe their is a term for it but basically they pass a "gatchya law" that is super difficult to follow and open to interpretation, then if someone gets caught doing something they have a reason to prosecute.

Example: speeding laws, ammo or firearm storage laws, tax laws etc. Most people are reasonable when they drive, but don't always follow the speed limit. If they catch you and other charges fail they always have speeding as an excuse. Tax code is so complicated and constantly changing its a real joke. They even have people who exist to handle the bullshit because its so complex, just like how laws are written. CPA and lawyer do the same job in a sense, figure out the bullshit so you don't go to jail or commit a felony.

[potato3732842]

The real evil is the people who give the power to the people who create this perversion of rule of law, saw that they did this and decided they were ok with it.

I don't care what the subject is, the law should NEVER be like this.