[epolanski]

60% is a very huge number, not understanding the "only" wording.

Also, as an European I know virtually no people opposing EU membership, when there are, it's generally less educated people thinking that the economy or whatever would be better.

[kukkeliskuu]

As an European, I know many who oppose EU membership, but most educated people would not express it publicly because they are harrassed if they express their opinion -- supposedly only "less educated people" -- i.e. idiots -- support it.

It appears that opposing EU membership is kind of a taboo, and many educated people are afraid to express their opinion on the subject. Which tells you all you need to know about the legitimacy of EU.

[epolanski]

And what are their arguments?

[kukkeliskuu]

Why do you ask? One often encounters an argument that if I cannot make up a rationale that you consider as reasonable, then it means I am wrong. The problem is that the polarization means that neither side can rationally understand the argument of the opposing side. The fact that you don't consider the argument of these people as reasonable does not prove anything.

[Jensson]

They don't want to become like USA, that is the easiest argument. We see how USA went the slippery slope of removing states rights and expanding federal power, people in the EU don't want that.

To prevent that from happening there needs to be a resistance to EU expanding its power, and the most effective way countries can do that is to threaten to leave.

[epolanski]

The US seems like a success model if anything. Wonder how much better would be the lives of Californians or Louisianans if they were their own country.

[kukkeliskuu]

I have not reviewed all the arguments.

One is simple. EU does not have a single language. There is are shared values, shared vision, shared culture, or shared identity among regular people.

The cards are stacked against EU being succesful.

[kukkeliskuu]

"is are" => "are no"

[RandomThoughts3]

The UK complained at length about the EU for decades including educated people so much so that they decided to leave and are now out.

Both the far right and far left opposes the EU openly in France. Even amongst EU supporters there is a fair deal of criticisms levelled at the organisation.

I think your alleged taboo is very much self imposed.

[ericmay]

Maybe it’s self-imposed because those mentioned don’t want to be lumped in with these extreme groups? I.e. the shy voter phenomenon.

[int_19h]

> it's generally less educated people thinking that the economy or whatever would be better

You should be very careful with these kinds of sentiments. Openly contemptuous elitism is how we ended up with Trump in US.

[epolanski]

But polls do tell that it's generally less educated people having worst feelings about the EU.

It also happened with the Brexit, where it was mostly less educated workers and farmers supporting Brexit, exactly the demographic that got hurt the most by it.

[chgs]

Farmers by and large supported Brexit in line with the rest of the country, especially once you factor in age.

The single clearest indicator was age. Old people - million who have died since 2016 - voted out, young people who have to live with the devious voted remain.

[epolanski]

Not true, poorer, lower educated and rural population predominantly voted for Brexit.

> University graduates and those with higher qualifications predominantly voted to remain. Blue-collar workers, particularly in traditional industrial areas and manual labor jobs, overwhelmingly supported Brexit. Reasons included economic discontent, perceived competition from EU migrants, and a desire for national sovereignty.

As usual, it's only people that have very low capacity to understand a complex world, those that are easier to sell dreams about "sovereignity" that end up screwing their own lives.

Somehow the same happens in the US where conservatives can win even while openly promoting policies against workers (but it's always easy to promise more manufacturing jobs and america first).

[chgs]

https://westcountryvoices.co.uk/challenging-the-myth-that-fa...

Being a farmer didn’t seem to make much difference one you remove other factors like age and education.

[dboreham]

I'm not sure causation is proven. We have openly contemptuous elitism and we have Trump. Not necessarily cause and effect.

[int_19h]

We had one before the other.

I remember the spikes in these kinds of editorials starting somewhere in early 10s.

[kukkeliskuu]

Could such causation be proven, if it existed? I don't think so.

In addition to contemptuous elitism and Trump, there is also agreement that the US is very divided.

Also, as the posts above suggest, people who oppose people who oppose the EU, do not meet these people with the same proportion they appear to exist according to polls. Which matches my experience that educated people are afraid to express their opposition to the EU.

Still does not prove causality, because causality on such an issue cannot be proven.

You need to look into second-order effects in order to get a clue what is happening. First second-order clue is that people are afraid to express their opinion. The second one is that opinion is very polarized and people are divided on the issue into "us" and "them", i.e. divided.

[chgs]

Educated people in anonymous polls are afraid to express their opinion?

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-refere...

And statistical correlation based on census data?

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/educational-attain...

[kukkeliskuu]

GP claims that he has not met anybody who is against EU but presented statistics that only 60% support EU.

[rswail]

No, Trumpism is caused by manipulation of public opinion by populist and authoritarian politicans and media.

One of their manipulations is to promote the dismissal of expert opinion as "elitism" and that the "elites" are contemptuous of "the ordinary American".

It's bullshit and always has been factually incorrect.