[in-pursuit]

There are really two distinct homelessness problems:

1. The “temporarily unhoused”. These are people who have fallen on hard times and need temporary assistance to get back on their feet. These people live out of their cars and are largely invisible.

2. The chronically homeless. These are drug users who infest public spaces and are highly visible and disruptive.

When laypeople talk about “homelessness”, they typically mean 2 as it’s more visible and disruptive to them.

[davidw]

This is a good point, but part of what the article is saying is that where housing is cheap, some of even those "at the margins of society" people with some drug problems can maybe stay housed. Which means fixing the drug part of their problems is easier than if they're moving around on the streets.

[seanmcdirmid]

Ya, but isn’t that complete BS? I lived in Vicksburg MS, and while housing is definitely cheap, it’s not free, and you can’t really survive there if you can’t make any money at all. So you either die or move.

[davidw]

It's kind of helpful to think of the world in percentages, rather than "1 or 0, black or white".

Some people with drug problems are able to hold down some minimum wage work or part time jobs or something that brings in money.

In Mississippi, that might be enough to keep you housed. In Los Angeles, it's not.

Also you're more likely to be able to stay with a friend or relative with some extra space if housing isn't so tight:

https://worksinprogress.co/issue/why-housing-shortages-cause...

[seanmcdirmid]

Yes, that’s totally true! I think this is a much more interesting problem when we get rid of the drug addiction component. It is just sad that drug addiction is consuming all of our social resources that could otherwise go into solving housing problems.

A lot of kids from Vicksburg also move to LA and don’t make it because of housing costs, so they move elsewhere. But should they have made it? Should LA be affordable enough for everyone who wants to live there to live there? If not, but we want to subsidize housing for some segment of the American population to live in LA, how do we prioritize? If yes, how much housing do we need to build to satisfy all American and international demand to live in LA?

[mmooss]

> drug addiction is consuming all of our social resources that could otherwise go into solving housing problems

What is that based on? Also, why are people with a drug problem less deserving than people with housing problems.

Finally, what I understand from experts is that the first step to helping people with drug problems is to get them stable housing.

[in-pursuit]

Not OP, but

> What is that based on?

This is based on the fact that we have finite resources. Any resources that go to housing drug addicts could have been used for something else. There is a real opportunity cost there.

> Also, why are people with a drug problem less deserving than people with housing problems.

There are a few issues with housing drug addicts:

1. Understand, these people aren't just run-of-the-mill addicts. They are so addicted to drugs that they'll live in unimaginably horrid conditions to support their addiction. Any housing they receive will be destroyed and made uninhabitable.

2. Housing them makes the system more miserable and undesirable for everyone else. If you're a parent with children and you're facing homelessness, are you really going to use a resource where close contact with heavy drug addicts is possible?

> Finally, what I understand from experts is that the first step to helping people with drug problems is to get them stable housing.

That's actually the second step. The first step is getting the addict to want to quit drugs. Many addicts don't want to stop using, and giving those people housing is not going to be an effective way to combat their addiction if they aren't first interested stopping their addictive behavior.

[mmooss]

> There are really two distinct homelessness problems:

> 1. The “temporarily unhoused”. These are people who have fallen on hard times and need temporary assistance to get back on their feet. These people live out of their cars and are largely invisible.

> 2. The chronically homeless. These are drug users who infest public spaces and are highly visible and disruptive.

What is that based on? Do you have any data to support these categories as something real? It sounds a lot like, '1) people I like; and 2) people I hate.'

It's wrong to discuss human beings like animals, and as if they exist to please or displease you, and as if they can be treated like animals.

They are people with their own experiences, like you, sensations and emotions and lives, who matter just as much as you do and belong in public spaces just as much. I've spent lots of time in major cities; chronically homeless people are among the least disruptive, and I've talked to many and know a few people in that situation; people on opioids are in their own worlds, often in a dream.

[in-pursuit]

I'd recommend a quick Google search for "types of homelessness" or "chronic homelessness" before proffering any personal attacks.

[mmooss]

If you are making the claim, it's up to you to support it. I'm not doing your research.

[in-pursuit]

I'm not asking you to do research, I'm asking you to look up definitions you don't understand. There's a difference.

[xboxnolifes]

The second category isn't just drug users. It's also people who are not mentally capable of keeping up the routine of decisions that keep them off the streets. Opposite of the "temporarily unhoused" category, they tend to be "temporarily housed".