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by mnau 544 days ago
> Both appellations invoke some sort of idealized professional standards

The key point of the comment was that engineers do have standards, both from professional bodies and often legislative ones. Craftsmen do not have such standards (most of them, at least where I am from). Joiners definitely don't.

Edit: I would also disagree with "pumping out bug ridden mess that software's become."

We are miles ahead in security of any other industry. Physical locks have been broken for decades and nobody cares. Windows are breakable by a rock or a hammer and nobody cares.

In terms of bugs, that is extraordinary low as well. In pretty much any other industry, it would be considered a user error, e.g. do not put mud as a detergent into the washing machine.

Whole process is getting better each year. Version control wasn't common in 2000s (I think Linux didn't use version control until 2002). CI/CD. Security analyzers. Memory managed/safe languages. Automatic testing. Refactoring tools.

We somehow make hundreds of millions of lines of code work together. I seriously doubt there is any industry that can do that at our price point.

1 comments

> We are miles ahead in security of any other industry. Physical locks have been broken for decades and nobody cares. Windows are breakable by a rock or a hammer and nobody cares.

That is not such a great analogy, in my opinion. If burglars could remotely break into many houses in parallel while being mostly non-trackable and staying in the safety of their own home, things would look differently on the doors and windows front.

The reason why car keys are using chips is because physical safety sucks so much in comparison with digital.

The fact is we are better at it because of failure of state to establish the safe environment. Generally protection and safe environment is one of reason for paying taxes.

> The reason why car keys are using chips is because physical safety sucks so much in comparison with digital.

Not the reason. There is no safe lock, chip or not. You can only make it more inconvenient then the next car to break in.

> The fact is we are better at it because of failure of state to establish the safe environment. Generally protection and safe environment is one of reason for paying taxes.

Exactly backwards. The only real safety is being in a hi-sec zone protected by social convention and State retribution. The best existing lock in a place where bad actors have latitude won't protect you, and in a safe space you barely need locks at all.