[wakawaka28]

The difference is, ICE car parts don't generally require replacement of everything at once. They can be made by 3rd parties, and defective parts usually break in boring ways. Batteries have none of these nice properties. You have to change the whole thing at once, it requires proprietary high tech to make a compatible battery, and any defect could burn down your house or a parking garage with unextinguishable metal fires. Yikes!

It is possible for an EV to be serviced and remain operable for long enough to become an antique, but no modern EVs are built that way. Most modern ICE cars aren't built that way either but they have a much better chance at longevity because their parts don't really have a limited shelf life, and there is a large aftermarket for many of them.

[bryanlarsen]

All three of those properties do apply to a Nissan Leaf. There are third party batteries and you can replace individual cells. But the lack of integrated cooling that enables this means the battery doesn't last. Better to get a car where the battery lasts the life of the vehicle.

> defective parts usually break in boring ways

I think this is far more true on an EV than an ICE. Batteries generally fail very predictably and are generally still usable even when degraded.

[wakawaka28]

>There are third party batteries and you can replace individual cells.

I think one could argue this but the fact is that any one of those cells can destroy the battery, giving you thousands of little time bombs stacked on top of each other. The labor to change one cell is also approximately as much as to change the entire battery on any EV, and labor is a huge part of the cost of replacement. Nobody is going to take an EV apart to just change one cell. On the other hand, people do often take whole engines apart to change seals that cost $20.

>But the lack of integrated cooling that enables this means the battery doesn't last. Better to get a car where the battery lasts the life of the vehicle.

Better to not get an EV if you want it to last or even be a collector's item. "Life of the vehicle" can mean "practically as long as you feel like fixing it" if the design is good.

> Batteries generally fail very predictably and are generally still usable even when degraded.

We don't know how unstable these EV batteries will become in 10, 20, or 50 years. An ICE car would not explode or burn down after such a long period, even with the heaviest use and abuse. But an EV can easily do so. Then there are the flooding and accident risks. I am seriously nervous having old lithium batteries in my house inside of old consumer gadgets, and those are tiny. EV batteries magnify that problem 1000x.

[bryanlarsen]

> Nobody is going to take an EV apart to just change one cell. On the other hand, people do often take whole engines apart to change seals that cost $20.

Hobbyists regularly do both. Professionals charge thousands to do either.

> Better to not get an EV if you want it to last or even be a collector's item. "Life of the vehicle" can mean "practically as long as you feel like fixing it" if the design is good.

Neither are going to be a straightforward to keep running 50 years from now as a car from the seventies, but a Tesla is going to be far easier to keep running for 50 years than a modern gasoline car. 1/10th the number of moving parts, far less wiring, far fewer computers, far fewer part count, et cetera, far less regular maintenance, et cetera.

> We don't know how unstable these EV batteries will become in 10, 20, or 50 years

Yes we do.

> An ICE car would not explode or burn down after such a long period, even with the heaviest use and abuse.

Yes they do, and at a higher frequency than electric cars do.

> I am seriously nervous having old lithium batteries in my house inside of old consumer gadgets, and those are tiny. EV batteries magnify that problem 1000x.

No they're not. EV batteries are properly managed, unlike random gadgets. They're safer, not more dangerous.

[wakawaka28]

I wish I had put this in my other reply. Here is a guy trying to fix used Teslas that are only a couple of years old: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5rwEIo-PWP0 If it's that difficult and expensive now, how much more so will it be in 50 years? Even the door locks are overcomplicated. When that central computer or display goes out and the only ones available are from wrecks, and you don't have the software to install them, good luck with all that. So much for "less moving parts" lol

[wakawaka28]

>Hobbyists regularly do both. Professionals charge thousands to do either.

Hobbyists are also building cars that run on steam power. I did not mean literally nobody is taking EV cars apart to change one cell. But it is actually very dumb to do so, and it makes zero sense to do professionally given the tremendous liability and expense involved. Taking an ICE apart to change rubber seals might cost a few thousand. And the car cannot really explode if you do that wrong, like an EV battery mistake can. Changing an EV battery costs tens of thousands. One of those things is more economical and reasonable than the other.

>Neither are going to be a straightforward to keep running 50 years from now as a car from the seventies, but a Tesla is going to be far easier to keep running for 50 years than a modern gasoline car. 1/10th the number of moving parts, far less wiring, far fewer computers, far fewer part count, et cetera, far less regular maintenance, et cetera.

Hahaha you've got no idea. Tesla is probably the worst example. Everything is proprietary, they don't sell parts or software to consumers. Other cars don't require a mechanic to also be a reverse engineer. You can whine about moving parts all you want but there are many ICE's still in service a hundred years after they were manufactured.

>>We don't know how unstable these EV batteries will become in 10, 20, or 50 years

>Yes we do.

I didn't realize I would have the honor of meeting a time traveller today.

>>An ICE car would not explode or burn down after such a long period, even with the heaviest use and abuse.

>Yes they do, and at a higher frequency than electric cars do.

They DON'T. And even when they do somehow catch fire, usually due to some external factor, they can easily be extinguished with WATER. EVs cannot be extinguished and all the water sprayed on them becomes heavily polluted.

>No they're not. EV batteries are properly managed, unlike random gadgets. They're safer, not more dangerous.

Again you prove that you don't know what you're talking about. Random gadgets have charge and thermal regulators for their batteries, so they are much like EVs in that regard. Furthermore, any one of the thousands of cells inside an EV can ignite the rest. That has happened many times, for example in the case of an Australian cement truck EV. The manufacturer discovered the problem, after the truck burned to the ground in a huge disaster.

No ICE car has ever caught fire from being splashed with water. EVs do this all the time! But sure, we're supposed to believe that they will be maintainable and economical to fix 50 years from now. Give me a break and gtfo with that nonsense.