[anovick]

Seems like the tag system is flat, which is a big limitation on the organization capability.

For example, I noticed that in the demo access app, there's a note about cooking, and it has 4 tags: - `baking` - `cupcakes` - `oven cooking` - `recipe`

This would get out of hand quickly.

There should be a hierarchy of tags (categories): `cupcakes` in `baking` in `oven cooking` in `recipe`

The only tag needed in this case for the note would be `cupcakes`

[oDot]

Hi there! I am extremely glad to read someone else write about this necessity!

I own and operate a "list-taking" app[0] in which every list/kanban-item can itself be a list/kanban.

I currently use it for things I'm the creator of -- tasks, story outlines, etc, but looking to introduce 3rd party content for task management (I want to see GitHub tasks from work next to my own tasks) and, as you say, knowledge management of things like recipes or music.

Items could be part of one or multiple hierarchies. A list of "cake" recipes could be under both "baking" and "party essentials", and music playlists could include other playlists.

As you can tell, this can become convoluted in my mind, and so if that's something that's interesting to you (or anyone reading this), please reach out and let's discuss! hn at nestful.app

[0] https://nestful.app

[pm]

I may have come across your app before in passing, but hadn't checked it out. I playtested aspects of a "productivity system" (grain of salt) with paper earlier this year.

"Spontaneous productivity" mirrors some of my own thinking on the subject, especially the JIT and bubbling aspects and how they work together. I haven't seen how it works in the case of Nestful, but I'm keen to try it out. It may adjust the design principles guiding development.

[mohamedbassem]

The tagging system is indeed flat, but the lists can be nested. The idea being that tags are usually AI generated, and there's a lot of them (which is useful for search), but lists are meant for manual curation and this is where you can have whatever structure you want.

[anovick]

Happy to see that you have considered this

IMO it would be interesting to try to combine the two approaches (curation + auto tagging).

It starts out with the user scaffolding an initial hierarchy, then (after enough usage to provide meaningful data for ML predictions) the ML model predicts on subsequent entries, and asks the user for approval (which feeds a reinforcement learning model)

[mohamedbassem]

This is indeed the plan. We're currently working on generating embeddings for the all the bookmarks stored, and one of the usecases of this is going to be clustering. If a bookmark is similar to all other bookmarks in a list, the model can suggest adding those bookmarks to the list. Still a manual operation, but with ML assistance.

[ninalanyon]

> This would get out of hand quickly.

Hierarchies get out of hand quickly too. You will soon find that different people (or the same person at different times) create different hierarchies for the same thing and that the same thing belongs in multiple places.

[aeonik]

Polyhierarchies combined with RAG is the one true way.

[shanusmagnus]

I didn't know this term before, thanks! Are there any examples (e.g., products you like) that demonstrate this One True Way in practice?

[aeonik]

Not yet.

I have been experimenting with different representations of data in Neo4j, Markdown, and Orgmode. I even tried cludging the polyhierarchies into different file systems using symlinks and tagging,

I'm still researching for better storage techniques.

I want a good mix between hand editing, but robust machine readable formats. Orgmode works pretty good, but it's fairly complicated to parse, and I think it could be improved.

The retrieval and search part could be improved with RAG, but I don't have the hardware or time at the moment to hacking around with the compute intensive AI stuff.

[UltraSane]

Just give me a Neo4j database and Cypher to query it.

[UltraSane]

That seems like a silly term for a Directed Acyclic Graph

[UltraSane]

A flat tagging system doesn't require much curation while nested tags require someone to decide what tags are members of what other tags. Taken to the logical extreme a hierarchical tagging system becomes a full blown ontology.

[tuananh]

i feel this feature is not quite needed in the age of AI