[tannedNerd]

This post is 100% BS. I just checked the instructions for an engine swap on a fiat 500 are about 60% longer than the 500e battery swap. Also the engine weighs around 450 lbs, so its not like you aren't using a hoist or a lift for both any ways.

[SV_BubbleTime]

LOL, yea, tell me how many shops in your area will open a EV battery. Spoiler, it’s going to be zero most likely.

[tharant]

Are you suggesting that since the third-party EV repair industry is still in its infancy that EVs are therefore objectively bad? If so, how is that perspective different from any other mass-market industrialized consumer product? I remember folks telling me that the iPhone would fail because nobody could make apps for it. Markets change, as evidenced by the fact that you’re now repairing/rebuilding Fiat and GM batteries; that wasn’t a marketable skill two decades ago.

[SV_BubbleTime]

Not an industry in infancy.

There are no parts from the OEs, there are no tools, the packs are not meant to be serviced, and it is SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS work.

[tharant]

>There are no parts from the OEs, there are no tools, the packs are not meant to be serviced, and it is SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS work.

The same was true for the ICE vehicle third-party repair industry 100 years ago.

It seems like your objection to BEVs (i.e. they can’t be repaired) is directly refuted by the fact that you yourself repair BEVs. Maybe I’ve misunderstood your argument though.

[SV_BubbleTime]

>The same was true for the ICE vehicle third-party repair industry 100 years ago.

Awesome, in 100 years your EV vehicle won’t be totaled if the batteries dies.

We diagnose failure, we don’t repair for customers.

[tharant]

Sigh. It didn’t take 100 years to grow the ICE repair industry and I imagine you know that; I suspect you’re just being stubbornly argumentative for the sake of vanity.

There’s already a fledgling industry of third-party repair shops for BEVs—which you can attest to first hand. BEVs are not “disposable” like you claim—as evidenced, again, by your own experience of repairing BEVs.

You’ve suggested, in other threads, that BEVs are not designed for repair; every professional and shade-tree mechanic I’ve ever known (myself included) has used that same complaint (“engineers are idiots; they don’t think about repairs”) against ICE vehicles for decades yet the ICE repair industry is still massive and, importantly, constantly evolving—new tools, new aftermarket parts that are better/more reliable than OE, the sharing of knowledge so others can learn how to be safe, etc. This is how industries grow. The notion that all the support infrastructure must be in place before a product can be considered useful or reliable is absurd; we live in a world that iterates and evolves quickly.

Is the Fiat “totaled” or will you be able to repair it? What about the Bolt?

You’ve complained that working on the Fiat is difficult and poorly documented; have you seen what it takes to replace the oil-pan gasket on modern trucks? You have to remove the entire cab! I know well the frustration of working on products that have poor service documentation or seem to be engineered only for production with no consideration for service but that doesn’t mean a product has no viability or is unreliable; in fact, the opposite often seems to be the case—difficult to repair products seem to have better longevity and are therefore more likely to be viable.

I’m willing to admit I might be wrong about BEVs while it feels like you’ve already decided they’re utterly useless; why take such a hard-line stance?

[senectus1]

it also annoys me that EV batteries are talked about as if the same rules apply to all the different chemistry types.

they dont. LFP has at least twice the cycle life of NMC for starters..