[ninkendo]

Every now and then I worry about the rust ecosystem growing too fast and there being too many JavaScript expats flooding cargo with useless code and poorly thought out abstractions, etc…

Thank you for reminding me that most people don’t have the patience to even learn something that makes them think even the tiniest bit. Most of the JavaScript people won’t even get past a hello world program. I think we’re mostly safe.

[hu3]

rust community hubris at its finest.

Still, I find Scala and Haskell community more elegant and intellectually superior when it comes to gatekeeping.

[lelanthran]

> Thank you for reminding me that most people don’t have the patience to even learn something that makes them think even the tiniest bit.

You think Rust makes you think "the tiniest bit"?

I mean, sure, there's a lot of excess cognitive burden so that you think more about the language features than about your program logic, but you surely aren't claiming that that is a good thing.

[ninkendo]

The concept of a string’s primary storage being separate from a view/pointer to its contents, is a necessary distinction to draw if you want to minimize copies and still not require garbage collection. Any language that gives you control over your memory is going to need this distinction. Thinking of ownership is a necessary cognitive burden if you want to avoid unnecessary allocations or garbage collection pauses.

People coming from JS or Python look at these burdens and think “rust sucks because I have to worry about string allocation”, without caring that all languages have to deal with this somehow, and if they’re not making the programmer think of it, the language will have to manage itself in a way that won’t always be optimal.

The analogy I like to make is that if a JS developer thinks it’s bad for a language to make them deal with some abstraction, the should consider that their JavaScript VM itself needs to be written in a language that makes someone care about this stuff. JS only works at all because some engineer writing C++ is thinking deeply about string lifetimes. It can’t just be JavaScript all the way down.

However if you’re using Rust in an environment that could just as easily use a GC’d language, you could definitely make the case that it’s the wrong tool for the job. Not everything needs to be written in a low level language, but for the stuff that does, I’m glad Rust exists.

And I’m also glad that people who don’t understand the tradeoffs are “skipping” rust entirely. It’s not gatekeeping, it’s telling people who don’t want to be here that it’s ok: you don’t need to code in rust, maybe it’s just not for you.