[refurb]

I worked with oncologists and this isn’t true.

Oncology has a rapidly changing treatment landscape and it’s common for oncologists to be discussing the latest paper that has come out.

If you’re an oncologist and not keeping up with the literature you’re going to be out of date in your decisions in about 6 months from graduation.

[liontwist]

Funny enough that last paragraph is also said of software engineers too. Neither are true.

[refurb]

Unlike oncologists, people won't die if you don't keep up on the latest programming techniques.

[liontwist]

This sounds like it should be true but isn’t. Were oncologists killing people in 2010 because they lacked the research from the last 15 years? A career is only 25-35 years long.

And while we are here it’s always a good reminder that medical malpractice is the 3rd leading cause of death. So yes they are still killing people everyday.

doctors are not a special class of professional. They are guided by intuition, standards, a touch of research, and mostly experience. Most of the time that gets the job done.

[refurb]

> This sounds like it should be true but isn’t.

It absolutely is true, I've seen it myself.

> Were oncologists killing people in 2010 because they lacked the research from the last 15 years? A career is only 25-35 years long.

100% absolutely they were.

Maybe you don't understand just how fast cancer treatments change? Cancers that had 20% 5 years survival rates 15 years ago, now have 60% survival rates.

Thus if a doctor today isn't aware of those new therapies, they are killing patients that would otherwise live.

> And while we are here it’s always a good reminder that medical malpractice is the 3rd leading cause of death. So yes they are still killing people everyday.

How is this relevant to the point?

> doctors are not a special class of professional

I'd say they absolutely are. Unlike most other jobs, their decisions don't directly have an impact on whether people live or die.

Which is why we treat their employment differently requiring not only education, but supervised work experience, standardized exams and licensing. If they don't fulfill those requirements, they don't work as doctors, period. That seems like a special class of professionals to me.

[liontwist]

> It absolutely is true, I've seen it myself.

Seen what? How frequently the average oncologist studies? How many treatments went poorly because of outdated knowledge? I don't think you have.

> 100% absolutely they were.

So does this mean we are currently killing people out of ignorance and we should wait for the real research? Or we finally figured it out this time?

I'm not claiming nobody is making progress. I'm claiming that most working Doctor's don't read it.

> How is this relevant to the point?

Doctors are making mistakes with imperfect and bad knowledge all the time. All the credentialing, etc doesn't stop this - because they are human beings working a job.

> their decisions don't directly have an impact on whether people live or die.

In every other country a medical doctor is a 4 year bachelor's degree. So why doesn't Europe treat life or death seriously?

The word you are looking for is liability protection - in combination with labor union protection.

> If they don't fulfill those requirements, they don't work as doctors

Every professional class has such requirements - accountants, lawyers, civil engineers, etc. And Doctors are no more serious or caring than any of those.

[refurb]

> I'm not claiming nobody is making progress. I'm claiming that most working Doctor's don't read it.

I love HN hubris. What do you base your claims on?

I assure you that most oncologists stay on top of the latest studies. I work with them on a daily basis.

> Doctors are making mistakes with imperfect and bad knowledge all the time.

That’s not relevant to the current discussion. Mistakes are not the same as not being aware of the latest research.

> In every other country a medical doctor is a 4 year bachelor's degree.

You’re all over the place in your arguments. The length of training is irrelevant to staying on top of the latest research.

> Every professional class has such requirements - accountants, lawyers, civil engineers, etc.

Not to the same degree. I don't recall too many accountants doing 3-4 years of apprenticeship. The world isn’t black and white, there is gray.

I’d suggest to stick to commenting on things you know about.

[mort96]

Yeah, non-programmers seem to think everything is changing so quickly all the time yet here I am writing in a 40 year old language against UNIX APIs from the 70s ¯\_(ツ)_/¯