Has anyone else noticed Reddit being taken over by shills/bot/trolls

[thoughtcritical]

with very little help by mods in the last year? Blocking tons of perp accounts is tiresome but really the only way to use it now. Will it eventually become some really odd platform where 90% of the posts/accounts are shills/bots/trolls shitposting narratives devoid of any critical thought? That does seem to be where it is currently headed.

[Terr_]

> last year

I dunno, a bit before that my only account of 10+ years got sitewide shadowbanned without warning or explanation, with everything I ever wrote (and all replies to it) vanishing from public view. I used their appeal page, got a message saying it was an error and my appeal was approved... and then it stayed broken and and appeals won't work because it says the account is normal.

I resurrected an ancient career-advice-throwaway account to ask for help, and the same thing happened. And their generic support site is a total black-hole. I'm not ashamed to say the process was way more emotionally-devastating than I would have expected, as it was my primary social-media identity.

That certainly tore off some blinders about how close we are to being sharecroppers to our Kafkaesque system overlords.

[qingcharles]

I briefly talked to Huffman (u/spez) about this during ModWorld and followed up with him later. Many of us made it clear that the appeal process is essentially a black hole. Send me an email (on my profile) and I will ping you if I get any further info from him.

[Terr_]

Thanks, I sent an e-mail titled "HackerNews / Reddit issues", with some more detail about what I remember. (e.g. How moderators could approve a comment and then it would be forcibly re-blocked by a mysterious force.)

I'll have to look into some kind of system that can multi-publish things I really care about in-between social-media sites and my own (woefully abandoned) blog.

[bestouff]

So if you know someone you can get out of shit. We're in a privilege-based society.

[qingcharles]

Well, that's usually the case with everything, sadly. The only way I know how to get Meta accounts back is generally to pay an employee off to put a ticket in.

I don't have a banned account with Reddit (fortunately), but I know those who have had bad experiences, so I thought it was worth bringing up.

[amyames]

Meta sometimes responds to correspondence sent to their Oversight Board, c/c a copy to office of the CEO with your ID on the hacker way address.

This worked (this year) to restore an account of mine that was locked for over 8 years that none of their systems could or would review or resolve. They never replied to the letter, they just silently unlocked it and flagged my profile as verified.

I never received any warning or any reason for the suspension. I have a common name but am not impersonating anybody.

It ended up being a waste of time . I can no longer see friends or relatives or co workers. It’s all “for you” spam and I deleted it of my own accord after a week anyway.

On topic: yes the Overton window either moved a LOT on Reddit or they’re overwhelmed or don’t care anymore. Purely anecdotal in favor of a window shift; there are a lot of comments in /r/musked that would have gotten you a wide reaching if not site wide ban just a year ago (and still get you bans from /r/elonmusk and /r/teslamotors even if you’ve never posted there.) but for , I think, obvious reasons it’s almost impossible to take it “too far” on that subject or say anything harsh enough about that company or its owner on Reddit now.

Many examples of people or subjects that were untouchable and met with great force just a year or two ago that are fair game now. While probably not against the rules on HN, I don’t want to get into it. I stuck with a safer , mostly not political one.

Left-on-left criticism of the DNC is also apparently wide open now that the election is over. It would have been moderated or banned just two or three months ago. Not only does nobody care , but sometimes it’s even heavily upvoted.

I’m only in the USA for work and have no opinion on this but it’s hard not to notice it.

[mjrpes]

I only subscribe to about 15 mid-sized niche hobby subreddits and one location subreddit. I haven't noticed any issues with shills/bots/trolls.

[tom_]

Me neither, though i only joined 10 years ago so maybe I've just never known what it should be like?

(A couple of the location subreddits i follow have seemingly shifted political allegiance over the past 3-4 years. Changing demographics, perhaps. Pandemic-related sanity level changes, possibly. Maybe the mods have found they've got more engagement by encouraging this.)

[billy99k]

"devoid of any critical thought"

This defines Reddit. No bots involved.

[nozzlegear]

This defines most of social media. Some (many?) topics on HN are not immune either, it just has good moderation.

[zamalek]

Yup. You just find (and sub) to the places where it lives the longer you are on Reddit. Everyone probably experiences this trend.

Delete your account and the trend stops.

[FloorEgg]

Definitely. The Overton window on Reddit is tightly managed. Anything outside of it is shadow banned at admin level and whatever is inside is amplified by bot comments. Been going on for years.

[EasyMark]

Not to mention rando control freak mods can get you cast out for posting in other subs even because they "banned" you from theirs (even if you never joined or even posted there) and reddit has no way to see if you are "banned" in a sub other than a one time notice that's easy to forget. I have sent in a few requests notifying how fking dumb that is, but haven't heard a peep. If you are banned from a sub, then you should not be able to post there -at all- because it's extremely easy to forget. I deliberately delete my account after about 1 year of activity so I don't get too attached to them. It's a good renewal exercise.

[qingcharles]

I brought this up to Huffman (u/spez) during ModWorld and followed up with him later. The mods on r/pics have been on a pre-emptive banning spree lately. The issue is on his radar now at least.

[EasyMark]

Cool! just reviewing my comments. Thanks for bringing it up. A simple "you are banned from posting notice" after trying to post would be all it takes. If I'm banned from a sub, then don't let me post there. It shouldn't let vindictive, power hungry mods permaban you from reddit because you "ignored a ban".

[gruez]

>Anything outside of it is shadow banned at admin level

source? What's the range of the supposed overton window?

[Capricorn2481]

This is one of those threads where everyone is just gonna air their perceived gripes with Reddit with little relevance to the OP.

There may be biases from supermods, and that's an issue, but there's dozens of examples of diametrically opposed subreddits with thriving communities.

[loxias]

Absolutely. Honestly, I took the presence of this HN post itself, and the fact that it directly contradicts my own first hand experience, as a really bad sign (for HN).

Very little has changed on Reddit since the protests. A few tight knit communities went to discord. But tons of people loooove to complain.

[moribvndvs]

Spam, link farming, shilling, and shitposting has not only become an unstoppable disaster, now they are apparently keen to go after people trying to use the tools provided to them to help moderate content. I was threatened with a ban for violating rule 8, using reporting tools to harass and ironically spam. It was automated of course, so I appealed and after several months they told me it was upheld but just gave me a warning. I doubt they really looked at it at all, as I don’t think anyone’s steering the ship anymore.

And that’s just it. After the API changes, mod revolt, AI scraping deal, and IPO, the owners got what they wanted while in the process breaking the back of the community and now it’s virtually rudderless and adrift, and would probably drop off the radar entirely if it weren’t for all the effluence openly running through it every day. I wasn’t using the site much after the API changes, but the disdain I was treated with sealed the deal.

[rvrs]

This is not news -- Reddit has been very clearly astroturfed for years now

[thoughtcritical]

yes, but it seems to be going exponential in the last year coinciding with their ipo

[thenextpandemic]

Class action law suit is what I say… if I share my opinions or just a factual story in public.. no jerk wad is gonna have the nerve to make a sarcastic or hateful comment to my face… I’m 47 and it’s still never happened to this day… one innocent post on Reddit and I’m getting banned for “reacting to the harassment “ that should be dealt with or disallowed to begin with. They are providing an open forum for harassment which makes them criminally liable no matter what their policies say ,as you cannot contractually give up or suspend your human rights.

[lazypenguin]

Online discourse has been declining in quality for many years in my opinion. I think as a consequence of more platforms where more specialized conversations are happening now in private: Facebook groups, discord channels, livestream chats, etc. I think it’s hard to say if the junk has gotten worse on Reddit or the good stuff now has dwindled. However all the popular sites, including this one, are gamed by companies. There’s even strategies for when to post on HN, at what time and with what kind of title to get the most engagement.

[superkuh]

Back in 2015/16, yes, it became obvious that Reddit corporate had sold out and was letting corporate spam bots run the show. Even going so far as to invent being able to 'post' to your own /u/profile instead of subreddits just for corporate spam accounts like /u/washingtonpost to be able to spam the front page without moderation.

I imagine it's only become worse since. Reddit was reddit from 2005-2016. Since then it's just been Facebook refugees and bots.

[LorenDB]

According to UserBenchmark, Reddit has been overrun by AMD-shilling accounts for years. (To be clear, nobody takes them seriously.)

https://www.notebookcheck.net/UserBenchmark-gets-banned-from...

[PartiallyTyped]

Them being UserBenchmark I assume.

[LorenDB]

Yes indeed.

[variadix]

Since ChatGPT’s release you can’t rely on user testimonials for products on Reddit. There were paid shills before ChatGPT, but it was harder to do at scale. Now there are way too many bot replies to sift through.

[psychip]

the entire internet taken over by bots since last two years. gen-z still part of human genome but no different than robots in conversational level.

[thoughtcritical]

It does feel like a large shift took place about 2-5 years ago.

[SauciestGNU]

Yeah I'm going into crazy conspiracy territory with this kind of, but with the advent of LLMs it would not surprise me if a large portion of social media users are false personas built by machine generated comments over time that seem maybe human. You get enough of these together pushing the same ideas and it almost begins to feel like community consensus.

[l0ng1nu5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory

[thoughtcritical]

how does reddit's stock price continue to go up even though it is a textbook example of dead internet theory?

[stogot]

Ads get viewed (fraudulently) by bots.

[thoughtcritical]

how are stockholders okay with such a fraud-laden business model?

[whazor]

Actually, I noticed in a subreddit where some commenters were labelled '1% commenter'. This gives me a completely new picture, where the '1% commenters' are given the same usual narratives on the same topics over and over. I believe that these people are real, not shit-posting, and are genuinely passionate about the topics. Nevertheless, reading the non 1% comments is also interesting.

[01HNNWZ0MV43FF]

The last couple times I tried to make an account, it was instantly hellbanned.

Guess they prefer the bots. So I come here and go on Mastodon for ocean-pissing

[qingcharles]

It's probably your IP? Try a VPN is my only suggestion.

[potsandpans]

I've observed it right here on hn.

[unethical_ban]

Whatever changes one may have observed at HN, I promise you, it is still a fortress compared to reddit.

[timbit42]

Each sub-Reddit is different. Some are terrible, some are great. I just leave the bad ones.

[BMc2020]

According to Steve Gibson (Security Now podcast among other things), "Attacks never get weaker, they only get stronger."

I remember being able to attract bots from a certain eastern mediterranian country and a certain south of Siberia country with just certain trigger words. They seem a lot more sophisticated now.

in the sr about economics over there the mention of a certain economist would instantly attract the 'bury brigade' to downvote the post. Haven't been there in years so I have no idea what it's like now.

Until we find our Neo, the only thing we can do is run when we attract the attention of an Agent.

[Pigalowda]

I agree. Lots of work to block, mute, and hide. In fact that was most of my time on it recently until I deleted it. Either you join the bot run hive mind or spend your time managing rather than consuming entertainment.

[kaamkiya]

I occasionally browse Reddit (I don't have an account), but I think I knew that it was going bad back when all those subreddits were protesting.

Back then, it wasn't because of bots, but I did think that most websites going through enshittification will eventually be filled with bots.

I did find https://discuit.net to be a good alternative, as well as Lemmy.

[thoughtcritical]

reddit alts per ai:

    1. Lemmy (Lemmy.ml or other instances):
        ◦ Federated: Lemmy operates on a decentralized model, similar to Mastodon (in the Twitter alternative space). This means that there is no single governing body—each instance is moderated independently.
        ◦ Focus on Communities: It focuses on subcommunities where niche interests can thrive without corporate interference. Lemmy also has a strong commitment to free speech and critical thinking.
        ◦ Federation Across Servers: Even if you're waiting for Lemmy.ml approval, you could try other federated Lemmy instances, which all talk to each other. For example, Lemmygrad is another Lemmy instance with a large user base.

    2. Mastodon:
        ◦ While Mastodon is primarily a microblogging platform, many instances of Mastodon cater to users interested in thoughtful, critical discussions. Communities are tightly moderated to avoid trolls and toxic behavior. Mastodon is another federated platform like Lemmy, so you can choose an instance that aligns with your interests and values.
        ◦ Instance Focus: You can look for an instance dedicated to intellectual discussions or more niche interests that you care about, like critical thinking or philosophy.

    3. Discourse:
        ◦ Discourse is an open-source forum software that powers many community-based platforms. While it doesn’t have the same level of reach as Reddit, it offers features like:
            ▪ Better community management tools to handle bots and trolls.
            ▪ Topic categorization, which helps in organizing meaningful discussions.
        ◦ Many independent forums use Discourse, which allows you to find active and vibrant communities where civil discourse is encouraged.

    4. Hacker News:
        ◦ If you enjoy more tech-oriented or intellectual discussions, Hacker News (owned by Y Combinator) might be a good fit. It’s known for its focus on tech, business, and science discussions with a strong community of knowledgeable people.
        ◦ While it has its own challenges, like any online community, it has fewer issues with trolling compared to Reddit.

    5. Voat (now archived):
        ◦ Voat, which was a similar alternative to Reddit, was taken offline, but it had served as a niche community that didn’t adhere to Reddit's moderation policies. While it no longer exists, there may be alternatives that have sprouted in response to its closure, though they could have similar moderation issues.

    6. 4chan/8kun (Caution Required):
        ◦ 4chan or 8kun could be alternatives if you're looking for platforms with fewer restrictions. However, be aware that these platforms are infamous for being more chaotic, with unfiltered content that can range from meaningful conversations to highly offensive posts. If you're looking for critical thinking, proceed with caution—you might encounter a lot of noise as well.

    7. Tildes:
        ◦ Tildes is another Reddit-like platform designed for high-quality discussions. It's a non-profit that focuses on having meaningful conversations. It has a smaller user base than Reddit, but it is ad-free and focuses on user-curated content.
        ◦ Critical Thinking: Tildes encourages more thoughtful posts and discussions than the typical Reddit posts, which are sometimes filled with memes or low-effort content.

[sitzkrieg]

mastodon is a fediverse client good to see slop propagate though

[thoughtcritical]

why do these ai spit out so many falsehoods?

[downrightmike]

Spez has been there a while and that is 100% their business model.

[OsrsNeedsf2P]

I will happily admit I sold my Reddit account (same name as HN, moderator of a few niche subs) after the API changes. I only recently recovered it so I could start posting again

[add-sub-mul-div]

It's been worthless for a few years. Reddit and Twitter are a quarantine for the worst of the internet, so that the next generation of online spaces remain higher quality.

[seba_dos1]

Yes, about a decade ago. Why do you ask?

[monero-xmr]

https://x.com/reddit_lies/status/1870220129255981364?s=46

You see the themes everywhere. Similarly worded comments and posts made at the same time and upvoted in order to manipulate thoughts and emotions.

[nozzlegear]

Reddit's constant armchair activism and political scorekeeping is tiresome and downright counterproductive at times, but I think cringeworthy nicknames/memes like "President Elon" are more easily explained as the "reddit zeitgeist" latching onto something it found funny and then beating the dead horse into a bloody pulp.

[whycome]

Weird consensus for new movie trailers is so bizarre.

[username135]

i really miss /r/sas

the sas forums are great, but there were always lost nuggets of code you'd come across that made your day when you were stuck

i still browse the site but stick to a small handful of niche subs

[djaouen]

I tried posting on Reddit a couple of times when I had new blog posts but found my posts were immediately deleted because I didn’t have post history on the subreddits. Haven’t used Reddit since!

[qingcharles]

It's getting really hard to post anywhere on Reddit with a new (low karma) account because so many subreddits have installed karma gating to stop low karma bots doing exactly what OP is talking about.

[BobbyTables2]

I feel like all of the popular subs like “r/todayilearned” and such are posts by bots.

Many topics are repeated numerous times. I know the relevant XKCD, but still have trouble accepting things like “TIL the sky is blue” .

[DidYaWipe]

They call those "moderators."

[kyriakos]

Many large sub reddits are insufferable at this point but I still see great value in smaller niche topics.

[fidotron]

There's more to this. If you see traffic that comes from reddit it inexplicably dropped off a lot (like over 30%) after the US election, even in totally unrelated areas.

The preferences of HN in recent months have also changed in some hard to pinpoint way, but I suspect it is now gamed to a degree that is hard to fight due to all the tools for writing AI bots.

[ForOldHack]

Thus ends the professional enshitfication of redwhatit, and only the armatures are left. Best of luck monetizing that API.

[uoaei]

Don't you see? The people paying for the API are running bots...

[matthewfelgate]

Reddit is now only useful as data for AI training.

[unethical_ban]

Short story: yes.

Anything that is not targeting current events is super easy to game.

Hot chicks, historical photos, "TIL", and "interesting" subsa re rife with unoriginal content and onlyfans bait. Then, as some have noted, there will be bots that steal comment top comments of those reposts, for another layer of bullshit.

Many current events subs are safe spaces of far left or far right agendas.

I'm left wing, bit the Texas subreddit got co-opted by overtly political moderators and it is mostly political now (though it's hard to avoid politics these days).

The only genuine places these days are hobby subs that are hard to game karma from. And maybe some local or regional subs.

Otherwise... Yeah, it's gotten really, really bad.

I should do a write up with some of my findings.

[endtime]

Yeah I had to leave /r/texas, very low signal:noise. /r/dallas is better, at least.

[suby]

I was on Digg, and I switched to Reddit prior to the Digg exodus. So it's been a while, at least 15 years that I've been there.

I think the quality of discussion on these sites has definitely gotten worse, but it's always been pretty bad. Digg people would post absolutely idiotic shit, even by today's standards. The thing that sticks out to me is something that I don't even think is appropriate to mention here, but I want to mention it because I think it illustrates how insanely poor the level of discussion was on these older forums -- there was an ASCII art meme that was reposted in seemingly every thread -- pedobear, a bear that wanted to molest children. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedobear. Hilarious (sarcasm)....

I switched to Reddit because it did not have people posting this crap in every thread. It was refreshing to have a forum where people weren't spamming idiotic ascii memes but actually discussing things.

But even so, it's all relative. At one point probably near 2009 or 2010, I was struck by the amount of unhinged comments where people called for outright revolution and violence against the US government / capitalistic systems. I stopped sometime after reaching 100 count in a week or two. I hope it goes without saying, but any violent overthrow of the current status quo is not going to be replaced with something better. It's going to have end up in an authoritarian dystopian nightmare.

At least back then though I felt like it was actual people being unhinged. Now I don't think you can use Reddit as a barometer for the public opinion on anything. I simply think the amount of fake shills and accounts are too high. Reddit got its start by faking comments, but there was definitely a peak in the ratio of genuine to fake comments, and we're in my estimation doing very very bad on that benchmark nowadays. This became evident on large subreddits like r/politics back in 2016, where on a dime it was like a button was pressed in a machine and the shape and color of comments all change in unison. The site is gamed to hell and back.

I like Discord nowadays because I can be sure I'm interacting with a real human, though how long this will stay true I don't know. The internet desperately needs a system in place which can distinguish between genuine human beings and bots. I think much of the social issues we have nowadays stems from how bad actors are manipulating what people see online, and confusing people on where the consensus actually is. Various actors are waging psychological warfare on the public, and the public does not even seem to acknowledge it, even when it is blatantly obvious (as in the example of something like Tik Tok).

[qingcharles]

I prefer Reddit over Discord because of the archival aspect of Reddit. It's near impossible to find anything in search on Discord.

[drewcoo]

Flagged this because shitposts about other sites just oughta be flagged.

Tell me otherwise and prove it!

[thoughtcritical]

I am asking in good faith as someone who's been using internet forums for over 20 years.