[simonw]

No, I'm complaining that just because GPT-4 is called GPT-4 doesn't mean it's the fourth LLM from OpenAI.

Off the top of my head: GPT-2, Codex, GPT-3 in three different flavors (babbage, curie, davinci), GPT-3.5.

Suggesting that GPT-4 was "fourth" simply isn't credible.

Just the other day they announced a jump from o1 to o3, skipping o2 purely because it's already the name of a major telecommunications brand in Europe. Deriving anything from the names of OpenAI's products doesn't make sense.

[benatkin]

While I’m sure it’s unintentional, that amounts to nitpicking. I can easily find three to include and pass over the rest. Face value turns out to be a decent approximation.

[simonw]

If this was a random blog post I wouldn't nitpick, but this is the Wall Street Journal.

[benatkin]

The thing is that I think it could be an optimal way of saying it. Should we not put it into context of making a particular LLM? Why count three versions of three LLMs? They made it hard to choose the one that makes up for not having GPT 1. GPT 3.5 and Codex are both good candidates. And of course calling GPT 4 the third and fifth could be considered as well.

[simonw]

"OpenAI's fourth family of LLMs" or "fourth generation of LLMs" would work for me.

[benatkin]

That doesn’t resolve the problem of whether third or fifth is better than fourth. I have yet to be convinced that their wording here shows that they fail to grasp the pace of the development.

[bluelightning2k]

There's at least 4 major releases just in GPT4.

GPT4, GPT4T, Gpt4o-Mini, GPT4o,

[maeil]

If we're generous the article considers versions that were significant improvements. 4o is hardly better on real-world usage (benchmarks are gamed to death) than the original 4.

[efilife]

There are releases. Releases is plural

[xanderlewis]

It’s somehow funny to hear a British company being described as ‘in Europe’, but I suppose you’re technically correct…

[plufz]

Technically…? Does anyone here believe that the EU and Europe is the same thing? Would you find it weird if someone said that a Norwegian company was in Europe?

[xanderlewis]

Many people certainly seem to! And it annoys me. I wasn’t talking about the EU, though.

I was just commenting on the fact that in the UK, ‘Europe’ generally means ‘continental Europe’.

> Would you find it weird if someone said that a Norwegian company was in Europe?

I’d find it weird if a European did. But from Americans it’s to be expected.

[maeil]

> Would you find it weird if someone said that a Norwegian company was in Europe?

> I’d find it weird if a European did. But from Americans it’s to be expected.

Absolutely nothing weird about it, I'd find it very weird if they wouldn't. I'm from Europe and my social circle has people from all over Europe.

It's really just the UK which has this weird usage of Europe.

[thrwthsnw]

Which Americans, North or South?

[xanderlewis]

As far as I know, Americans refer to themselves as Americans and South Americans do not.

[User23]

If Norway isn’t in Europe where is it? Asia?

[eru]

Well, Europe is a subcontinent of Asia. A bit like India or Arabia.

[3836293648]

No?

Europe is a subcontinent of Eurasia, as is Asia. Probably not the naming scheme in all languages, but this is English

[xanderlewis]

I didn’t say Norway isn’t in Europe. Read my comment carefully.

[boomskats]

> I was just commenting on the fact that in the UK, ‘Europe’ generally means ‘continental Europe’.

It really depends on who you're speaking to.

[umanwizard]

And on the context

[RandomThoughts3]

[flagged]

[Philpax]

I'd suggest you level up your reading comprehension before suggesting the parent poster was in any way offended or in need of therapy.

[xanderlewis]

Yeah… I’m a bit surprised.

[RandomThoughts3]

Parent is suggesting it would be weird for Europeans to call the UK as in Europe which as a European I can tell you is preposterous. That’s the kind of non sense you used to hear from Brexiter. They will have no sympathy from me.

[dgfitz]

No no no you missed it, clearly Americans are just stupid.

[SahAssar]

The UK is part of Europe. It's technically, geographically, politically, historically, lingustially, tectonically and socially correct. In what ways is it not?

[xanderlewis]

I don’t know — I’m not claiming to. I’m simply claiming that it’s a commonly-held belief.

[umanwizard]

Are Cuba or Haiti part of North America? A lot of British people feel like their civilization is meaningfully distinct from “Europe”, even though they’re part of it in a technical geographical sense.

[SahAssar]

> Are Cuba or Haiti part of North America

In general yes, but it depends on if you consider central america as its own continent and if you include them there and how you delineate north/south america. Groupings differ based on your education.

I think the thing that makes the UK different is that there is no other option besides them being a separate thing/continent. Are you suggesting that the UK is it's own continent? Would that be with the faroese and the Greenlanders?

The UK might feel different, but they are not separate. The french feel different from the bulgarians, but that does not mean they are on a separate continent, politically or geographically.

EDIT:

> A lot of British people feel like their civilization is meaningfully distinct

This is, to borrow a word, "balderdash". Looking at the influence vikings, romans and normans have had that is a rubbish argument. Just like other countries in europe the british culture is built on the stones of other cultures, and just like many other countries they subsumed other cultures because of kings or other political dominance.

[umanwizard]

Continents are not objective reality, they are semi-arbitrary groupings vaguely correlated with geography, culture, etc.

If British people don’t feel like they’re part of “the Continent”, there’s little objective reason to say they are.

[SahAssar]

But I'm guessing we can agree that any major landmass is generally belonging to a continent? Like we all agree that greenland, new zealand, japan, etc generally belong to a continent?

So to what continent do those british people think they belong?

[reshlo]

> Would that be with the Faroese and the Greenlanders?

Greenland is in North America.

[SahAssar]

The point was that any closeby landmass besides europe is either in europe or in north america, and I have a hard time seeing the argument for UK being in North America or America at all.

France would have a better argument for it having territory in both north (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon and others) and south (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Guiana and others) america.

[maeil]

The only people who find this funny are the British themselves, the other 99% of the world thinks nothing strange of it.

[simonw]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_(brand) - "O2 (typeset as O2) is a global brand name owned by the Spanish telecommunications company Telefónica"

[xanderlewis]

It’s a British brand, even if it’s now owned by someone else. It even says so on the page you link to.

[lobochrome]

Well - it’s Spanish now no? Telefonica bought them.

[blinding-streak]

Europe != EU

[vasco]

Imagine coming up with a naming scheme for the versioning of your product just for it to fail on the second time you want to use it.

[zapnuk]

Should have used chatGPT to ask for a name or at least check it