[edanm]

1. I'm going to state outright that I don't think rounding up Palestinian civilians and shooting them is happening. Israel does a lot of things I disagree with and there are, I'm sure, many war crimes being committed, but rounding people up and shooting them is far, far away from anything anyone has any proof for (or any reason to think is happening).

2. While you seem to imply that your article proves the opposite, it doesn't - it just shows Palestinians being "rounded up", or as the IDF says, arrested. There is no reason to think (that I saw) that this is anything other than a mass arrest of Palestinians, possibly terrorists, possibly civilians that are sometimes arrested and later released.

If you think literally any picture of the IDF arresting many people is proof that those people are killed, then I understand why you're sure that the IDF is going around killing Palestinian civilians.

[okokhacker]

Huh. The bar of proof for the IDF to be rounding up and killing people is so high, but you’re quick to suggest that the people they round up are likely terrorists.

In any case, here you go https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876

[edanm]

> Huh. The bar of proof for the IDF to be rounding up and killing people is so high, but you’re quick to suggest that the people they round up are likely terrorists.

Yes. This exactly captures my thoughts. The bar for proving that the IDF is committing this kind of crime is pretty high. And yes, I think the IDF is generally trying to arrest terrorists, hence my thinking that if they detained a bunch of people, they are possibly terrorists. I think what is likely happening is that a bunch of people were arrested because they were in a zone where the IDF can't know if they are militants or not, they will be investigated, and most will be released. That's what almost always happens.

You, on the other hand, seem to think that if the IDF is detaining a bunch of people, it's in order to mass execute them, despite there being no actual evidence of this ever happening. There are a lot of problems people have with that the IDF is doing, and there's a lot of credible reasons to think war crimes are being committed, but as far as I know, mass detaining and execution of random civilians is not something anybody says is actually happening.

> In any case, here you go https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876

Once again, a lot of insinuation with very little actual proof. The IDF alleged, and there are credible reasons to think it's true, afaik, that those are just Palestinian graves, not people killed by the IDF.

Look, I understand we have different prior beliefs about what is likely here. For an Israeli, I am relatively far left and relatively distrustful of both the IDF and the Israeli government. I think that much of the conduct of Israel is deeply immoral, very possibly war crimes, and I'm fairly certain that multiple cases of war crimes have been committed by some soldiers, though not as a matter of policy.

That all said, the things you (and many people) are saying are very implausible. Israel is so often portrayed as evil with absolutely no merit, that Israelis barely pay attention to it anymore, which is not good for anyone.

[juliuskiesian]

Israel rounding up and shooting people is absolutely real. The whole of Gaza is basically a open air concentration camp where the Israelis control water and electricity and which part gets bombed on which day basically depends on the mood of the IDF.

[z3ncyberpunk]

They are purposely sniping children and operating rape camps you sick fuck.

[juliuskiesian]

You are depicting yourself as on the "progressive" side of the Israeli society. If your view is representative, it's evident your country is irreversibly running down the slippery Nazi road and it does not bode well for Israel.

[edanm]

Just to be clear, you think this, not because we disagree about values, but because we disagree on facts. You think one thing is true, I think another - and therefore, I am proof that Israel is "running down the slippery Nazi road".

I could be wrong about things. I believe I am more informed, and better informed, than most people I interact with online, both in terms of the amount of attention I pay to this topic, and because I'm literally closer to everything that is happening, can talk with IDF soldiers regularly, etc. Nevertheless, me being (in my mind) more informed doesn't mean I can't be wrong.

But neither you, nor anyone else, has ever actually shown me real reasons to think I am wrong. Others in this thread have shown pictures of the IDF detaining hundreds of people, and just assume that it's proof that the IDF is rounding up and shooting people, despite this being a claim that no one is actually making, not even the people who are literally accusing Israel of genocide in court.

So yes, I think I am more correct about the facts. And apparently, disagreeing about factual statements is proof that I am somehow evil?