[imiric]

Like I said, my experience with frontend frameworks/libraries is limited, so I could be wrong. I last used React nearly a decade ago, Svelte a couple of years ago, and Vue quite recently. Vue does seem like the worst offender in what I'm talking about, with the `v-if`/`v-else` shenanigans. And Mizu being mostly inspired by Vue takes this a step further.

My issue is not whether the custom props are rendered into the DOM, but about the developer experience. Svelte, for example, has separate templating syntax and generally tries to keep things isolated, even if it's ultimately all compiled to JS.

[whizzter]

We decided to move away because PHP, JSP, etc was a mess with SQL codes and all other kind of form validation,etc code embedded into the pages together with CSS,etc. Yes it was a mess.

However, IMHO people have gone overboard with layering in so many places creating spaghetti projects that makes troubleshooting feel like goto riddled Basic of old.

In my view Vue's v-if / v-for / v-else is solidly for binding the viewmodel semantics, trying to separate it would require adding id's or some other way of connecting data to view production for no extra reason other than to specify that a list should be duplicated elements?

Wrote a small Vue page/app recently and this pragmatism really helped keep is small yet quite clean, HTML(with some small pieces of Vue markup), CSS and JS in each place. Would the project need to grow it'd be fairly easy to separate parts out into components but there wasn't even a need due to the small size.

[8n4vidtmkvmk]

React doesn't have any of that v-if/v-else crap, and it's one of the reasons I gravitated towards it. I don't like the fake attributes because it feels like an abuse of HTML, a risk if there's ever a collision because something was added to the living standard, and also, and this is mind-boggling bad to me, at least in the early days of Angular you could actually see the unparsed templating garbage on the page before the library kicked in and re-rendered.

The DX on React is quite nice. You had to do a bit of extra stuff to squeeze out a bit more performance by memoing stuff, but that's finally supposed to be fixed in React 19. And it's not like that perf was free if you did everything by hand anyway, that just required you to handroll clever batch DOM updates.