[joshuahaglund]

I've retrieved stolen bikes, one because of an airtag. Showed up with a couple friends standing by but not trying to be intimidating. It's mostly about staying calm and telling the person this is mine, I'm taking it. They always say "no it's my friend's, you're gonna piss him off" or "I just bought this" or something. Maybe you offer some fraction of a "reward" to smooth it along and cut your losses. Don't try to start a fight and it generally goes OK. Also, try not to accuse them of stealing, they'll just get defensive. "It's someone else who is screwing us both, but this is mine sorry."

[nostromo]

If it’s left anywhere in the open at anytime, you can repossess it legally as well. This happens with auto repossessions all the time. You don’t owe anyone an explanation as it’s yours - just take it if you can do so safely.

[mikeortman]

Just be careful! In SOME jurisdictions, you can get in trouble for 'stealing' if you take back something that was stolen. Possession vs Ownership are 2 different things. For instance, the thief may have stolen something, sold it to someone who bought it in good-faith, and you take it back from that person, it's technically theft!

File a police report, go through the right channels. If you know its yours, call the police department non-emergency and explain the situation

[nostromo]

I’d be curious what jurisdiction that is true.

In my jurisdiction in the US it doesn’t matter if someone purchased the stolen goods or not, the goods still belong to the owner. This is sometimes called the "nemo dat" rule:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet

The person buying the stolen goods would need to file a claim against the thief to recover their money, but the goods still belong to the original owner. And this is how it should be, since it’s added reason not to buy goods you suspect are stolen.

And yes, you should always try and work with the police first and foremost.

[jorvi]

That is probably mostly a common law thing, and as the article notes

> however, in many cases, more than one innocent party is involved, making judgment difficult for courts and leading to numerous exceptions to the general rule that aim to give a degree of protection to bona fide purchasers and original owners

> The person buying the stolen goods would need to file a claim against the thief to recover their money

Generally as long as the purchase is made in good faith, you are wrong. It is the original owner that needs to file a claim against the thief.

Obviously, what constitutes a sale in "good faith" is a rather imprecise science, although one steady element is the sales price: it needs to have been appropriate for the item. So for example a mint bicycle or antique coin should sell near sticker price.

[graemep]

> in many cases, more than one innocent party is involved, making judgment difficult for courts and leading to numerous exceptions to the general rule that aim to give a degree of protection to bona fide purchasers and original owners

The next sentence is:

> The possession of the good of title will be with the original owner.

So you seem to be wrong there. The innocent buyer needs to file a claim against the thief, the original owner retails their title. It is explained in more detail later on.

[jorvi]

No, I know our legal system quite well. You are wrong.

The reason for this is so that if you buy a bicycle at, say, a bicycle fair and for a reasonable price, you shouldn’t have to worry about it being yoinked from under you later on.

Lawmakers have clarified this is choosing between two evils, there is no winning proposition here.

So, in conclusion: the original owner needs to file the claim, not the third party.

[nsomaru]

The key element for a bona fide sale at common law is the buyer’s absence of knowledge of the defective title of the seller.

Not sure how US courts have interpreted this requirement but that’s the onus and I believe it rests on the third party buyer (to show absence of knowledge through evidence).

In that case the claim is against the thief only.

[ostacke]

Sweden is one such jurisdiction[1]. You can only retake what has been stolen from you if it is done shortly after the theft.

[1] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sj%C3%A4lvt%C3%A4kt

[randallsquared]

...as appropriate for a culture of Viking raids, one would suppose!

[lazide]

Possession truly is 9/10ths of the law in this case I guess?

[easyThrowaway]

How would they even prove that if it's in the open? "Stolen? No idea, I've always had that bike, I just forgot where I left it last time. Went and got it back. By the way, here's the receipt."

[Xmd5a]

This happened to me. I bought a pair of headphones (Nuraphones) on ebay, only to have them bricked by the company remotely.

IIRC, they had a security hole on their payment page: they forgot to implement SCA (strong customer authentification, aka 2FA for payments). Had they done this, the liability would have shifted onto the bank/card issuer. For some reason they decided to go after the customers in vain resentment, were acquired and their product was discontinued.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nuraphone/comments/8iw3he/beware_on...

[randunel]

Another jurisdiction example would be Romania. Even if the thief themselves are in possession of the property you own, you can be charged with theft if you steal it back. The law clearly delimits possession from ownership.

[chii]

> it's technically theft!

i hope that isn't true. A buyer of stolen goods needs to accept that a consequence of it is that they could lose possession of said good. This is why for expensive goods, you should ensure you're not buying stolen goods.

[mosselman]

Here in the Netherlands if you purchase something and cant reasonably know that it was stolen, then you become the legal owner.

It is logical that it works that way. Proving something is owned by someone else can be quite hard for certain items.

[neilv]

This is the most useful advice: call the police non-emergency number, explain concisely, and ask them what to do.

A bunch of the other suggestions, here on HN Streetwise ProTips, can get self and/or friends beaten, stabbed, and/or arrested.

[joshuahaglund]

IDK where you live but where I am, unless it's an actively life threatening emergency, the Police will say they're busy. I watched a drunk driver try to drive away after smashing into a parked car, ripping a wheel off the parked car. The drunk driver kept trying to start his car to get away. People called the police but they said they're busy. Fortunately his car was totaled and wouldn't start either. Over an hour later someone picked him up. If they can't even bother to deal with an active drunk driver, they aren't gonna help retrieve a bike.

Not saying confronting thieves is for everyone. But it's not necessarily as physical as you think.

[chmod775]

> IDK where you live but where I am, unless it's an actively life threatening emergency, the Police will say they're busy.

Where I live the basic law/constitution establishes a protection duty of its citizens by the state (this includes their property). The police is one of the ways the state takes care of this duty. If the state is grossly negligent in this or even does nothing at all, the state may very well be on the hook to make the injured party whole. This responsibility is passed down and carried by individual police officers, and there have been cases of police officers being personally convicted of causing bodily harm for not dispatching a unit after a request for aid (despite them not personally swinging any punches)[1].

Generally you'll have police show up for near anything if they can.

[1] https://www.wz.de/panorama/nach-notruf-keine-streife-geschic...

[wat10000]

In the US, it’s been established by the Supreme Court that the police have no duty to protect anyone. They can it they want to, and individual departments can make it a policy and fire officers who fail at it, but it’s not a fundamental requirement.

[true_religion]

I live in Arlington, VA where I once saw a purse snatcher being chased by 5 cops. Only to have 3 more show up after the guy was on the ground. They all had their own cars too.

During COVID, I called the non emergency line police for a break in on my car parked on the street and the police showed up in minutes then searched the area frantically to see if the guy was still around.

I don’t know if they are over funded or just bored.

[happyopossum]

Sounds like you live in a crappy big city like SF, Oakland, Santa Clara, etc.

For the vast majority of people who live in reasonable cities, calling the police for something like that will get a timely response.

[bagels]

Please tell us the magical place you live in that has friendly, helpful police with time to investigate every crime.

[weakfish]

Didn’t happen in the small North Carolina town that my parents live in, with a very similar situation as the parent. So truly, YMMV. Not all places can be generalized.

[saagarjha]

Santa Clara, population 110,000, is a big city to you?

[Thorrez]

Someone I know's phone was stolen. He tracked it using the track my phone feature to a house, and contacted the police asking the police to help get it back. The police said no, it's too dangerous, not worth it.

[TylerE]

No, THE most useful advice is not to take legal advice from cops.

[neilv]

How do you think the police will give bad advice, if you call them up and ask what to do?

[extra88]

There are countless examples of police not knowing the law.

If you talk to them in person, it should be to get an idea of what they'll do, which may or may not have something to do with what's legal.

If you want legal advice, ask a lawyer with experience in the relevant area.

[chii]

> How do you think the police will give bad advice

the police will give you any advice, good or bad. They're not legally responsible for anything they said to you, as long as they're not telling you to commit a crime (in which case, if they did they will deny it).

You can still call 'em up of course - but don't 100% just trust their words blindly.

[ldoughty]

Ages ago when I tried calling the police...

"We cannot answer legal questions, please seek a lawyer for advise."

I don't do anything terribly interesting, so this was almost certainly not an issue actually worth paying $200 for a lawyer to answer.

[Kinrany]

Depends on how well they do their job, it's not hard to imagine them saying "file a report" and then ignoring it.

[vorpalhex]

It's probably a bad sign if you need permission from a desk clerk to get your property back.

It's great that you think _someone will handle that for you_ but it is probably a fantasy. Unfortunately you will probably need to self resolve. If you think it is going to escalate to violence, bring overwhelming force.

[darreninthenet]

This wouldn't be true in the UK, you can just take it back and use reasonable (which would be very light in the circumstances) force to do so.

[srockets]

The police won’t help you. It’s not their job.

[FabHK]

I was in Singapore in 2013 and there was a big sign on a street saying:

Crime Alert

THEFT OF BICYCLE

AT THIS NEIGHBOURHOOD

ON 20 MARCH 2013 @ 7 AM

Witnesses, please call Tanglin Police Division

(phone number redacted)

[happyopossum]

Move, or elect better local politicians. Your city is broken.

[serf]

we can't all live in Bedford Falls, and the police aren't there for the benefit of the every-person no matter where you live.

it's a nice bit of propaganda that they're there for us, but I urge anyone with that idea to seek out and research the history and origins of the modern police.

hint : in the US they first emerged as 'slave patrols', and then later modernized into 'industrial labor controls', and things weren't all that much better across the ocean in London with Sir Robert Peel and his version of the 'police service'.

[gottorf]

> the history and origins of the modern police

> in the US they first emerged as 'slave patrols'

> Sir Robert Peel and his version of the 'police service'

I assume that prior to the "modern" police, policing was still necessary, since there were lawbreakers and troublemakers since time immemorial. What do you regard as the substantive difference between the pre-modern police force and the modern? Did the former somehow serve "all of us" better than the latter?

[sneak]

Different local politicians won’t change the legal fact that the police have no obligation whatsoever to investigate or prevent crime. It’s simply not in the job description.

[9dev]

Err… what is their job, then, if not investigating and preventing crime? That pet theory with the slave patrols of yours, by the way, isn’t it; that’s a hoax. The modern police in the USA and other countries stems from the British police, which did exactly what they are supposed to do, since ages.

[dennis_jeeves2]

We need humans 2.0 for that to happen.

[throwaway48476]

Better to get rid of the police and let people get actual justice themselves.

[DaSHacka]

I'm sure that would end wonderfully.

[GeekyBear]

It depends on the city.

> Police to give out free air tag tracking devices to combat rise in stolen vehicles

https://www.princewilliamtimes.com/news/police-to-give-out-f...

[wahnfrieden]

They will at best waste your time, and at worst they will cause you and your family harm for involving them. In Toronto even a stolen car is not enough to get their attention if you are not a high-profile business owner.

[bagels]

At best they will help you with stolen property, but that is rare.

[wahnfrieden]

Mythically rare. They're more likely to steal from you.

[MagicMoonlight]

Please evidence this claim.

I know it’s false in the UK and I’d imagine it is false in any country where the law is based on UK law.

Failing to retrieve it at the time is going to mean losing it forever. If you find a crackhead with your phone and wait for someone else to retrieve it, that phone is long gone.

[harha]

Some jurisdictions are great at protecting all the wrong people

[Nakagawa835]

Helpful knowledge, thanks!

[wouldbecouldbe]

the police often won't do anything

[paulddraper]

So when both people think they have legally purchased it, they go back and forth stealing it?

[victorbjorklund]

Not everywhere. In Sweden that would be a crime (a little bit depending on what you mean left in the open).

[t0mas88]

In the Netherlands buying stolen goods is a crime. If you knew or could reasonably have known it was stolen (e.g. a bike with a broken lock, no keys and a low price) you risk a serious fine. If you didn't know it was stolen you just loose the goods. Technically you then have a claim on the seller, but of course you're not going to get anything.

So stealing your own thing back without the police involved may technically be illegal, but practically if the airtag tells you where your stolen bike is and you have the keys, skip the police and take it. Nothing will happen. The thief or their client is not going to call the police since that gets them arrested or fined.

Of course you can't go into the thief's house to retrieve your things. Then you do need to call the police first. But the one case I know about someone doing that for a stolen iPhone based on Find My app location, the police showed up quickly and arrested the thief + found lots of other stolen things in their possession.

[kleton]

What kind of anarcho-tyranny is that?

[selfmodruntime]

European countries sometimes have a rather repulsive legal system that provides far too much protection to perpetrators.

[unreal37]

There is no concept in American Law of "acquiring stolen stuff legally".

If you buy something that was stolen, the original owner has the right to get it back without compensation to you.

[rullopat]

I don't know somewhere else but, in Italy, buying / getting stolen stuff from somebody else is a specific kind of crime as well. You need to give a solid explanation why you have a stolen good.

[Ray20]

Protection from what? No actions are taken against perpetrators' interests.

[afavour]

It makes sense to me... mostly. The person currently in possession might have purchased it from the thief so taking it from them leaves them in a hole, not the thief.

More broadly I think it does make a certain sort of sense that a theft should be resolved by the police. Find your item and want it back? Get the police involved. It's just that these days we're all so used the police being completely ineffectual that taking matters into your own hands is the only "sensible" solution.

[wjnc]

The logic is that the current possessor might have acquired the product bona fide and is not necessarily the thief. In order to assess this, you cannot repurpose the product yourself, but need the cops and court involved. It's the oppossite of anarcho-tyranny, it's a law favoring orderly and non-violent solutions of real world capitalist conundrums. Private repossession of stolen property in a 'bear arms' society... are accidents waiting to happen.

In reality things are not so stiff. My dads bag was stolen from the train. The thief was apprehended on the station. He got his bag back from the cops because it had identifiable information in it. Perhaps a bit light on evidence that the thief was not the owner, but it's not always overly complicated. I think the thief got the right nudge.

[j1elo]

> the current possessor might have acquired the product bona fide and is not necessarily the thief. In order to assess this, you cannot repurpose the product yourself, but need the cops and court involved.

A fun thought experiment is that in the time you might have left your car parked in the street, it might be stolen, sold bona fide, then (by happenstance) parked in the same area, so one day you just go back to it and drive it away.

I guess in a more practical sense, you could claim that's (more or less) what happened after recovering your possessions after having them stolen... what would happen in that edge case?

[Ray20]

>acquired the product bona fide

Does not change anything. I mean poor guy, became a victim of a fraudster, but what does my bike have to do with it?

>you cannot repurpose the product yourself

This is not repurposing, this is its prevention.

>solutions of real world capitalist conundrums

There is no conundrums, it is pure tyranny.

[transcriptase]

Wait until you hear about Canada. The crown will ruin your life by dragging you through the courts for years for something like that, then drop the charges when it’s obvious they’re going to lose as to not set any precedent to be used against them in the future.

[altacc]

This is my experience as well. Most people don't want confrontation. I found my stolen bike when somebody was out riding it. I told them it was stolen from me, they said "OK" and handed it over. It was either them who stole it or they bought it suspiciously cheap and knew it was stolen.