[azemetre]

$20/hr still isn't much money and you can only survive, note I'm not saying thrive here, on that amount in the poor areas in America.

There are very few jobs that actually pay well in America nowadays, and the ones that do tend to be congregated in few geographical areas and require extensive schooling.

The vast majority of Americans deserve more money.

Also check your priors, there are many musicians that do not complain about piracy and even partake in it (see Trent Reznor being part of oink/what, or Dead Kennedys encouraging people to record music on their tapes). I know many musicians that would upload their music on private trackers, regardless of what their label wanted or said.

[webdood90]

> The vast majority of Americans deserve more money.

This is pedantic but I strongly dislike when people say anyone deserves anything.

I support an equitable system that allows citizens to move up in economic class (which we don't currently have) but I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone inherently deserves anything.

[sterlind]

That puts you at odds with the tradition of natural rights. The Declaration of Independence says everyone deserves life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[abduhl]

The Declaration of Independence doesn't actually say that. It says that everyone is endowed with certain unalienable rights including the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness whether they deserve it or not. Just like people have the right to free speech or a jury trial in front of their peers, whether they deserve it or not.

The distinction is important because whether someone deserves something is a normative statement while having the right is a descriptive statement.

What you deserve because of your right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is up for debate.

[ekianjo]

Does not mean that they deserve a specific fixed income...

[knowitnone]

its "have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", not "deserves" which is entirely different. Go to your boss and tell them you deserve a pay raise.

[webdood90]

I think it's an intellectually dishonest interpretation of my reply

[sterlind]

No, I don't think so. You specifically rejected the idea that everyone inherently deserves anything. Objectivists would agree, but I don't think Ayn Rand would have been popular with Jefferson.

Perhaps you could clarify - what do you mean by "everyone", and what do you mean by "anything?" Does everyone deserve UBI? Do workers deserve disposable income? Do the homeless deserve housing? Healthcare? Food? An attorney, if arrested? Do children deserve college? High school? Primary school? Orphanages?

You can't say that nobody inherently deserves anything, then say I'm intellectually dishonest when I take you at your word.

[billy99k]

"There are very few jobs that actually pay well in America nowadays, and the ones that do tend to be congregated in few geographical areas and require extensive schooling"

There are plenty of blue collar jobs that don't require schooling and can make a comfortable living. If you are talking about a job anyone with a pulse can get? This won't ever pay well.

"I know many musicians that would upload their music on private trackers, regardless of what their label wanted or said."

All the indy artists I knew ended up having to get out of the business because they couldn't sell their music anymore (people would just download it and expect it for free) and making money from live performances are mostly controlled by large corporations.

Piracy only hurt independent artists and forced all of them with talent to sign with large labels to make a decent living.

Again, with piracy, you want no protection for the artist (and even justify why taking their music, without asking, is fine). Yet, you want the unions to collude with the government to force corporations to halt all technological advances, so workers don't lose their jobs.

Doesn't make much sense here.

[rascul]

> $20/hr still isn't much money and you can only survive, note I'm not saying thrive here, on that amount in the poor areas in America.

That's enough to thrive in lots of places in the USA, in some cases. Maybe not the most desirable places, though.

[0_gravitas]

absolutely not, maybe if you're living with parents and not paying for rent or groceries

[rascul]

Or living by yourself or with a spouse, maybe with a kid. Not everywhere is high cost.

[azemetre]

Can you please name a single city in the US where you can easily live on $20/hr that isn't stricken with massive poverty?

I find it insulting that you don't think Americans, especially those that work, don't deserve dignity through their labor in having a meaningful life. Especially when they work for one of the richest companies in the world.

[rascul]

I find it insulting that you're moving goalposts and attributing things to me that I did not say and do not think.

[azemetre]

It's what I said in the original comment and it's what I think.

You failing to come up with an answer at least readers will know that you don't have their good conscious in mind.