Civilization is built on long term sustainable practice, shortcuts in response to the lack of such practices is how civilizations burn down.
Obviously T1 diabetics need to take medication because there's not much else they can do whatever side effects that has, but the topic is obviously relevant and posted here because these drugs are currently being used/abused for weight loss. Given that sustainable, side effect free ways to lose weight exist (with many additional benefits) that is what a healthy human civilization would do, instead of opting for drugs with utterly unknown side effects, potentially really bad ones, like in this case.
> Given that sustainable, side effect free ways to lose weight exist (with many additional benefits)
Just because it exists doesn't mean it's statistically applicable to a population of people. I've yet to see real evidence that on a population scale, sustainable and side effect free ways to lose weight exists at a statistically significant level. If you're 100+ lbs overweight and you lose it all without any medical intervention for over 5 yrs you're basically a statistical freak.
Not to mention that the human body is completely opposed to losing weight, and will do anything it can to convince you that what you really need to do is to gain it back.
This was something that astounded me about my weight. It is static. Has been static since I gained it all (when my thyroid quit working at 18 - over 4 months I gained 100 pounds). Since that date more than half my life ago, I have been the exact same 220lb +/- 5lb depending on time of day. Through caloric deficits, through hiking and jogging (run many 5ks, and just recently hiked 125mi through the mountains). I'm fit, I eat well, but I'm BMI of 34, and my weight never fluctuates.
My wife has wanted me to get on ozempic, but I'm actually scare of side effects, and the cost is atrocious in the US.
> I've yet to see real evidence that on a population scale,
I mean visit Japan if you want to see a large nation manage its populations weight, but the entire reasoning is completely backwards. Statistics doesn't have a will of its own or causal powers, it's a description of aggregate behavior. Change the behavior and you get some new statistics. 100 years ago you didn't have a single statistic showing that obesity was an issue. What evidence do you need that making people move more and eat less will make them lose weight, there's no law of nature operating against you.
The obvious reason to even think like this is indicative of the problem, that in a lot of places we're so unused to simply enforcing sane cultural norms and incentivizing healthy behaviors and discourage crappy ones that people think it breaks some kind of ironclad law.
> What evidence do you need that making people move more and eat less will make them lose weight, there's no law of nature operating against you.
IDK, any evidence? We've been telling people to move more and eat less for literally decades and it doesn't work to make them lose weight on a broad population level.
Perhaps a better phrasing would be, "There is no free lunch." If you prefer to take Ozempic rather than monitoring caloric intake and exercising, then there are consequences. But if the consequences are worth it, is up to the individual.
Someone reading this might assume its zero sum to you - as if people on Ozempic have not already been exercising and monitoring caloric intake without the associated weight loss/health results they desire - and have only chosen it because they don't want to try something else.
I'm sure you aren't trying to come across as fat shaming, but the reality is of course not zero sum. Diet and exercise doesn't magically work for the entire population.
Diet and exercise definitely worked for me but im not willing to be a sample size of 1 in the face of so many others with legitimate stories.
Diet alone is 100% guaranteed to cause you to lose weight. It really is as easy as counting calories. It is a scientific fact. It is physically impossible to gain, or maintain weight, if you cut caloric intake sufficiently.
Yes, and abstaining from alcohol is guaranteed to stop alcoholism! It is a scientific fact. It is physically impossible to be an alcoholic if you cut alcohol intake sufficiently.
No one here is stating that physics stops working for fat people. Obviously, your body needs an energy source to function and when you deprive it of that energy source it will go to your energy reserves. There might be some woefully ignorant people that claim otherwise elsewhere, but that's not the position of the person you are referring to.
But you're saying "it is as easy as doing activity x" without concern for the difficulty of that activity. There are a wide variety of reasons some people might get fat, but once you are fat, it is far more difficult to get not-fat than it was to get there in the first place. There are a wide variety of feedback loops within the body, including epigenetic ones, that make it much harder to lose weight and keep it off.
Once upon a time, it was trivial for me to not eat garbage food, or too much of any sort of food. I had more trouble trying to eat enough to be in a large enough caloric surplus to get enough protein in and stay in a large enough caloric surplus to build muscle. I never had "food noise" or anything of that nature. Then life happened, my circumstances changed, and I had less time to worry about food. I spent more time going out with co-workers and friends eating and drinking. Other nights, I was too busy to cook, and ordered in more. My weight went up, and before I really realized it, I had put on significant weight. And I realized that something I had found trivial before, something that had taken zero willpower, that I had never struggled with... was something that was incredibly mentally taxing.
Could I count calories and lose weight? Of course. Could I add exercise back in to my routine? Yep. But it was difficult in a way that I never had understood back when I was fit, in a way that I never would have believed could happen to me. And as soon as I got busy again, or had other things occur in my life that took priority, the mental effort to keep "just counting calories" and push down my food cravings and hunger no longer seemed worth it.
I could exert a huge portion of my willpower on this, struggle with it, remove my capacity to spend more time having care and empathy for others, forcefully deprioritize other things in life... or I could use a GLP-1.
I know which path made sense for me, and it's been a hugely beneficial thing in my life.
Agreed. And if you want to stop smoking or gambling it really is as easy as not doing it.
Except reality is it's hard. Addiction is a real issue, people have underlying compulsions and habits as difficult to break as with physical pressure. For some people monitoring caloric intake isn't the option it is for others.
You are not wrong. Starving yourself works, obviously. What doesn't work is maintaining people in a state of starvation. It becomes extremely hard if there are other tasks stealing focus (for example, work), or if you have a high basal metabolic rate, or if you have diabetes, etc.
I am the guy with an appointment with Ozempic prescribing doctor. I will seriously think about it twice. “Normal” starving does not have any very rare and very bad consequences. It’s just very very difficult.
It's true, it isn't a free lunch. You, or your insurer, has to pay for it. It needs to be injected. It won't work as well if you insist on eating a pint of ice cream three times a day. And so on.
>It won't work as well if you insist on eating a pint of ice cream three times a day.
Yeah, good luck with that.
GLP-1 agonists reduce your desire for, and for many people, your ability to consume things like “a pint of ice cream three times a day.” That’s kinda the point.
Obviously T1 diabetics need to take medication because there's not much else they can do whatever side effects that has, but the topic is obviously relevant and posted here because these drugs are currently being used/abused for weight loss. Given that sustainable, side effect free ways to lose weight exist (with many additional benefits) that is what a healthy human civilization would do, instead of opting for drugs with utterly unknown side effects, potentially really bad ones, like in this case.