[ifdefdebug]

This is bullshit. We, humanity, made a HUGE dent just in the last few decades, albeit in the wrong direction warming up our planet to dangerous levels. So we can't revert it back? Everybody knows that already, and that's not what it's all about. It's not about going back to previous levels, it's about damage control and keeping things at some survivable level, instead of burning it all to ashes within the next few decades.

So please don't make braindead, dangerous and lazy arguments that we can't make a difference. We are making a difference. We have to stop making a difference if we want to survive.

[kragen]

Of course we can revert it back. I've explained in more detail at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42423291.

[robomartin]

> We are making a difference.

No. We are not. And we cannot. That's the point. I realize this is uncomfortable for you to accept from your current understanding of the matter. It takes some effort and an open mind to get past the indoctrination and constant messaging before one can understand reality.

Not to get political, but this is a good example: Lost of us understood that Biden was in cognitive decline years ago. This was was obvious to anyone who could elevate themselves above the constant lies and manipulation from every politician and media source aligned with the "approved" messaging.

It was only when the lie was impossible to hide that everyone who used to lie and support him turned against him, instantly. At the time I used to say: They are not trying to pop him like a pimple. And that's what happened.

Same with this ridiculous fantasy of being able to affect climate change at any level. I don't care if the discussion is about keeping it as it is today or reversing it. This is is irrelevant. The entire idea is a fantasy.

I don't know how much longer it will take for the truth to come out. At some point researchers, politicians and those pushing this for financial gain will have no choice but to accept reality. When that happens, I hope everyone pounding me hard on this here has a moment of honesty and reflects on just how dumb they were to believe the lies they were sold. Today the cult is so strong and prevalent, particularly here on HN, that it is suicide to even dare speak one word in opposition. That's a sad reality with equally sad parallels in the political dishonesty we just witnessed in the US.

[kragen]

Here you say:

> We are not [making a difference]. And we cannot. (...) Same with this ridiculous fantasy of being able to affect climate change at any level. I don't care if the discussion is about keeping it as it is today or reversing it. This is is irrelevant. The entire idea is a fantasy.

But in a comment above you said:

> Humanity burned fossil fuels with incredible energy content per cubic meter. Massive, unthinkable amounts.

> This is how we caused change.

I think the person you are replying to is merely saying in their comment (which you are apparently arguing against) that humanity is currently causing CO₂ buildup and climate change by continuing to burn fossil fuels. It sounds like you don't disagree with what they intended to express, but with some other interpretation. For example, perhaps you are saying that preventing the continued burning of fossil fuels is politically infeasible for some person or group, perhaps collectively the readers of HN?

There are two problems there: ⓐ the collectively suicidal course of action of humanity, of continuing to burn more and more fossil fuels without sequestering the resulting CO₂, and ⓑ the relative powerlessness of that person or group, who hypothetically would be more rational and/or altruistic, therefore choosing a better course of action that would engender a happier future for humanity, even if that meant degrowth. Or have I misunderstood you?

With regard to point ⓑ, I'm not sure what to say. But with regard to point ⓐ, as I explained in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42424292, we're already off that path, even if whatever group of people you're talking about collectively lacks the autonomy to get us back on it.