[hsbshs]

Its complex cause you cant really find one person to blame. What no one really says is we are struggling with complexity overload. And what complicates it is all the people's wealth and status accumulation falsely signals control. When they really have less and less control the more complex the system gets.

When you look at pentagon leaders and afg/iraq or Wall St CEOs and 2008 gfc or the Pope and the peado army or linux kernel maintainers and serious security bugs found everyday the commonality is Complexity.

No one is fit the more complex things gets. So even though we get Tahrir Square once in a while, decade later we still have Generals in charge.

Scaling has become easy but scaling without unintended costs and consequences the past few decades have shown is complex.

[throwaway562if1]

It's trivial to find who to blame - just follow the money. Hit the investors with sentences proportional to their stake of ownership, and just like magic, executives who enable criminal behavior will become rather less popular and internal oversight much more so. Of course this will never happen, since the lack of culpability is the point.

[theoreticalmal]

I’d really rather not jail people who didn’t do anything illegal

[throwaway562if1]

And so we allow people to trivially circumvent the law by shielding themself behind a shell corporation, and never are consequences seen.

[sumedh]

Are they getting huge bonuses or dividends?

[badpun]

Jailing people just for having a stake in a company that did something illegal could kill the economy. People would be affraid to invest in companies, and move money to simple things like real estate (or to foreign investments).

[sumedh]

> to simple things like real estate (or to foreign investments)

Are you saying that is not happening now?

[gruez]

You want to make it worse?

[mattkevan]

If the companies they’re investing in aren’t doing anything dodgy they’ve got nothing to worry about.

[badpun]

How would they know that though? It's a huge personal risk that can be alleviated simply by investing in anything else in the world besides US companies.

[DonHopkins]

Is that why you think exonerating, platforming, and worshipping Kyle Rittenhouse is justified? Because you think murdering innocent people in the name of racism should be legal, as well as mass murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people by denying health care in the name of massive profits, earning $10 million per year plus $64 million in UnitedHealth Group stock as blood money?

Please explain your previous statement you posted on that topic, which I asked you to explain but you failed to answer, because I really want to understand how the twisted minds of people like you work, and how you justify such extreme cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy, blatant racism, and cold blooded profiteering murderers, including Brian Thompson, Kyle Rittenhouse, Daniel Penny, and George Zimmerman?

Daily Show Accuses Right of Hypocrisy With Montage of Pundits Condemning CEO Killer and Celebrating Kyle Rittenhouse:

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/daily-show-accuses-right-of-hypo...

The Daily Show posted a video of right-wing pundits condemning the praise of the CEO shooter, and juxtaposed it with footage of Kyle Rittenhouse being praised.

The killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in New York last week has controversially been celebrated by some who are frustrated with the state of the health insurance industry in the country. That praise has been met with harsh criticism from both Republicans and Democrats.

On Wednesday, The Daily Show published a montage of Fox News pundits criticizing those who are praising accused shooter Luigi Mangione. Directly next to montage, however, was footage of Rittenhouse being introduced at a Turning Point USA event — giving the impression that the pundits are actually calling out the praise for the 21-year-old who killed two protestors in Kenosha, Wisconsin in 2020.

“Fox News talking about Luigi Mangione, but make the footage Kyle Rittenhouse,” the tweet said.

The video began with Turning Point founder Charlie Kirk saying on stage, “Let’s get loud for Kyle Rittenhouse.” Seconds later, a clip of Sean Hannity talking about Mangione’s praise was shown.

“Murder, assassination, vigilantism,” Hannity said. “It’s wrong; it’s evil; it’s despicable… [He] was no hero… Cheering for the murder of an unarmed man beyond sick.”

While the Hannity clip played, the scene at the Turning Point event was jubilant as the crowd cheered for Rittenhouse’s arrival.

“For anyone that sympathizes and empathizes with a murderer,” Fox News contributor Nicole Parker said, “that is completely upside-down in our American society. There are people that need to re-evaluate their inner soul and their moral compass. There is nothing acceptable to me about that.”

Then, one of Kirk’s colleagues began chanting, “Kyle, Kyle, Kyle,” on the Turning Point stage.

“To sympathize with them,” Parker continued, “is just disgusting.”

[theoreticalmal]

Yikes

[teddyh]

It’s baffling that HN has not banned you for these regular tirades and personal attacks.

[callc]

Sure, attempting to find one or a handful of bad actors to blame may not yield a sufficient result that could convince the public that justice was served appropriately. Yet, the complexity of how to blame should not absolve the crime.

How should society collectively administer punishment to a large complex network of individuals with varying degrees of power and involvement? Reparations and the Nuremberg Trials / Tokyo Trial come to mind for WWII Axis powers. 500k deaths from opiods (taken from top comment) is comparable to the casualties from WWII, within a soberingly low amount of significant digits. Japan was occupied and could not have a military for some time.

Curious if there are other ideas of how to tackle punishment of businesses (not Luigi'ing it).

[hsbshs]

Well there is the Chinese and Russian example. The power just gets misused and creates it own issues.

People want simple and quick solutions. And they dont like answers they dont want to hear. Specifically about what behavior is rewarded and incentivized. As Veblen pointed out a hundred years ago, the flaw with Marx is not that there are exploiters and the exploited, its that there is the Leisure class and everyone else who given a choice wants that lifestyle.

The entire media and edu system promote consumption, wealth and status accumulation 24x7. When you are constantly hit with these signals punishing a few people here and there is just for show.

[salawat]

You say we can't find anyone responsible as if we haven't settled the question on culpability symbolically since we started leveraging hierarchies. You oversee it. You did it.

Start at the top. Move down. Heavy is the head, as they say.

[noisy_boy]

> Its complex cause you cant really find one person to blame.

When the big bucks go to the very top for a successful year, the penalty should also go to the very top when shit hits the fan. When the CEO/CIO/COO's bonuses are on the hook, I suspect you will suddenly see a great urgency/importance being assigned to doing things correctly and greater penalty being levied down the ranks for doing things wrongly.

These people had too much carrot, time to balance it out with some stick.