[devjab]

I can’t speak for rails’s ActiveRecord but I don’t think DjangoORM is worse than any other ORM in that regard. It’s probably one of my favorite ORMs. I don’t think I’ll ever really use it again but that includes every other ORM.

[kitsune_]

I mean there is a clear difference in how ORMs that use the data mapper pattern like Hibernate or Entity Framework etc. ultimately allow for a cleaner overall application architecture vis-a-vis ActiveRecord (the pattern) which usually ends up leaking throughout the entire application.

[devjab]

I think we agree. I don’t think there is that much difference between ORM patterns (and I’m sorry I misunderstood you) because they all eventually become more trouble than they are worth in larger and more serious projects. I agree that you can probably go further with data mapper pattern ORMs, like EF, but I’m not sure I think the same is true for something like DjangoORM vs SQLAlchemy. On the flip-side a lot of projects will do fine with any ORM and never run into issues over their lifecycles.

Though in a world of SQLC (and similar) I’m not sure what ORMs are really solving for anyone anymore.