[s1artibartfast]

Are you making a legal point or a moral one?

Financial crimes are literally crimes that deprive people of their financial property. They are crimes because property is understood to have utility. This isnt rocket science.

[capybaraStorm]

I am the CEO of insurance company Inc (ICI).

Under me is 1000 salesman. Every salesman knows and understands I am selling a plan that will deny or delay for some covered minor ailments that once in a million set off a chain inducing death.

As CEO of ICI I collect $300M in premiums and from that take $3M.

After selling a million policies, a patient dies as a side effect of intentional strategy of denying authorization to pay for care. That plan is traced to going through a single salesman, who collected $5 from that sale and $50k in all his sales. From that same sales, I, the CEO only collected $1. That is, the dollar profit for the death is greater for the salesman than the CEO.

The salesman and I are both direct paths in the death, in fact the salesman more than me, hell the salesman even made more of a commission than I did. The public will likely hold me more in contempt.

[s1artibartfast]

Are you talking to me?

Can you explain what point are you making and how does it relate to what we were discussing?

[capybaraStorm]

My point is he (CEO) is viewed by many as most culpable for fraudulently denied claims at UHC -- and there are crimes, even non-financial ones like drug dealing, that tightly couple level of organization and sales of a product to differences in penalty for even a singe death. That is, this line of thinking is embedded in the USC.

[s1artibartfast]

Okay, I don't have any objection to any of that. I thought we were talking about financial crimes

[capybaraStorm]

The contrarian view is that drug dealing is a financial crime of not paying for the credentials of a DEA license, or that fraudulently denying medical claims is a crime of criminal negligence resulting in bodily harm.

As for where I started, my initial comments involved both financial crimes and drug dealing. Most but not all probably consider insurance fraud as a financial crime but one that some can only atone through vigilantism. The line to me on all accounts looks blurry.

[echoangle]

Is that a financial crime?