[Dalewyn]

Your feelings as a non-Japanese have absolutely no bearing on what flies in Japan.

Whether the content concerned is tentacle hentai, or goth lolis, or genderbent King Arthur and Leonardo Da Vinci, or whatever else, that stuff is legal under Japanese law and Visa/MC are violating Japanese rights ordering Japanese creators and merchants to censor them. Visa/MC are quite literally engaging in foreign interference and subversion of democracy and Japan's very culture.

[epolanski]

That's overblown.

In any case, you can't force a private entity to do business with you.

[efitz]

Sure you can. Power companies etc.

[habinero]

That's a, uh, rather overheated statement and ironically, a very Western point of view. Japan is one of the richest nations in the world, they can (and do) run their own payments systems.

Also, it's risible to call that stuff Japan's "very culture". It's not. Otaku culture is fringe there, too. Japan is not anime.

Also, there are plenty of legal things that are (rightly) publicly shamed and ostracized.

For example, I don't want white supremacists to go to jail for what they say, but I want their lives to be as annoying and lonely as possible.

[lmm]

> For example, I don't want white supremacists to go to jail for what they say, but I want their lives to be as annoying and lonely as possible.

Do you want e.g. electricity companies to refuse to do business with them? Do you think that's a private business decision that doesn't need any particular right of appeal or evidentiary standard?

(The author deliberately presents the notion that a bank account is something different from a utility as though this were an objective, immutable fact of nature, rather than the product of choices that the financial industry makes because it finds it very convenient to think of itself that way)

[habinero]

The idea of making people with 19th century views actually live in 19th century conditions is extremely amusing. We could try it, sure.

On a more serious note, I don't think it's accurate or fair to say it's merely because of industry choices.

The US stretched the idea of the common carrier (ie everyone has equal access to send freight on the railroads) to things like oil pipelines and telecommunications lines. Utilities offer services under license from the government and have special rights and subsidies.

I don't think a bank account is that similar. It's essentially floating you a loan - you can cash a fraudulent check and skip out with the money, for example, and the bank eats the cost.

[Dalewyn]

>Japan is one of the richest nations in the world, they can (and do) run their own payments systems.

Indeed. JCB and certain western credit cards contracted with them for access into Japan (namely AMEX and Discover) have no problems (and why should they) with what Visa/MC want to censor.

>Also, it's risible to call that stuff Japan's "very culture". It's not. Otaku culture is fringe there, too. Japan is not anime.

Tentacle hentai goes back at least as far as Katsushika Hokusai[1], so you are mistaken. Otaku culture is very much a part of Japanese culture and inseparable.

>Also, there are plenty of legal things that are (rightly) publicly shamed and ostracized.

When legal tender cannot be used for legal transactions, there is a problem.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s...

[habinero]

> When legal tender cannot be used for legal transactions, there is a problem

Why? Something being legal for you doesn't make it compulsory for others. With limited exceptions, nobody is required to do business with you.

Also, I must stress again that Japan is a real country with real people. It is not anime, and it's even more risible to point to famous historical porn and say it's analogous to modern porn.

That's like gay slurs are deeply central to American culture because the Roman poet Catallus lost his cool once at some critics.[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catullus_16

[numpad0]

  >> When legal tender cannot be used for legal transactions, there is a problem
  > Why? Something being legal for you doesn't make it compulsory for others. 

Because this undermines soverignity. Nation monopolizes violence. There can't be a private police with its own laws, that's a mafia. Once an entity has powers comparable to that of the nation it resides in, within few orders of magnitudes, that power must to be destroyed and transferred to the government of the nation.

Credit card brands has it.

[Dracophoenix]

In this case, the US government, as well as the governments of other nations, will tacitly impose its monopoly on violence against banks, processors, and merchants to ban content it doesn't like. So it was with Wikileaks, and so it goes with ero-manga. The only mafia are the ones prodding the credit card companies into a financial dilemma between legal liability and cutting off a market.

[numpad0]

VISA isn't doing it in compliance right now. It's doing its things using "global standards" as an excuse. That behavior is not democratic, and such functions need to be regulated out.

I remember seeing people debating who's the kingpin and where the orders are coming from, as it'll change which of anti-monopoly laws, financial transaction laws, trademark laws, outsourcing laws, etc. would apply or has to be amended.

Whoever it is, it's kind of obvious that the mafia isn't a US or European official government entity or employee. Last I've heard, people doing this research-activism seem to have largely excluded direct involvement of VISA Inc. in US as well as its Singapore subsidiary, and was poking around few specific VPs in VJA or something.

[Dalewyn]

>Why? Something being legal for you doesn't make it compulsory for others.

Money is legal tender for all debts public and private, money has value precisely because everyone can and should use and accept it.

If banks or payment processors inhibit or prohibit my ability to conduct business by refusing to transact my money with no justifiable basis, then that is violating my and the other party's rights to free association as well as destroying the very essence of money.

If you truly do not see the very serious problem here, I'm not sure what it will take to enlighten you.

>Also, I must stress again that Japan is a real country with real people.

You are literally talking to a Japanese man, I probably know about Japan more intimately than you will ever do.

>It is not anime

Otaku culture is an inseparable part of Japanese culture and attacking it like Visa/MC are doing is attacking Japanese culture, what part of that do you not understand?

>it's even more risible to point to famous historical porn and say it's analogous to modern porn.

Kinoe no Komatsu[1] is quite literally a doujinshi-equivalent[2] from its time. Classic Japanese eroges are sometimes featured[3] as a symbol of Japanese culture of its time.

>That's like gay slurs are deeply central to American culture because the Roman poet Catallus lost his cool once at some critics.

Whitewashing histories and cultures is nothing short of reprehensible. Whatever happened to diversity and heritage?

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinoe_no_Komatsu

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunga

[3]: https://x.com/Ian_Fisch/status/1820897232746594354 - The lower screenshot (it is SFW) is from Words Worth[4]. The dialogue translates to English like so: [Astral]: Hey Katra... Are you always peeping at Sharon when she's naked?

[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_Worth (Link is SFW.)

[rosmax_1337]

What is a white supremacist?