[computerex]

They should have kept this amazing tech under the wraps because you have a bad feeling about it? Hate to break it to you, but there have been fake videos on the internet ever since it has existed. There are more ways to fake videos than GenAI. If you haven't been consuming everything on the internet with a high alert bs sensor, then that's an issue of its own. You shouldn't trust things on the internet anyway unless there is overwhelming evidence.

[callc]

Amazing tech != socially good

Of course, as knowledgeable people in tech we can look at the last few years of AI improvements as technically remarkable. pen2l is talking about social impact.

I hope our trade can collectively become adults at the big table of Real Engineers. Consider the impact on humanity of your work. If you don’t care, then you are either recklessly irresponsible, don’t know any better, or are intentionally causing harm at scale.

[OskarS]

Very well put. There's always been this Silicon Valley instinct that all technological advance is always good for humanity, and it's just not that simple.

[callc]

Thanks OskarS

Tech is a very powerful tool that can automate the most mundane tasks and also automate harm like mass surveillance and erosion of ownership rights of your devices. The sheer ability to create new markets and replace inefficient non-automated markets leads to huge $$$ making opportunities which people may mistake as being good in itself (good for economy / GDP = good for humanity)

[arsenico]

Cannot even quality "It has always been shit, so no problem at it becoming even shittier" as a hot take.

[sergiogdr]

> If you haven't been consuming everything on the internet with a high alert bs sensor, then that's an issue of its own

"just be privileged as I was to get all the necessary education to be able to not be fooled by this tech". Yeah, very realistic and compassionate.

[cma]

With a heavy dose of "if masses of people are fooled by this, it can't affect me as long as I can see through it. No possible repercussions of mass people believing completely made up stuff that could affect laws, etc."

[JPKab]

This entire thread reeks of "I'm smart enough to know that videos can be faked, but Jethro in the trailer park isn't because he's just a plumber, and therefore this tech needs to be censored or else Jethro might believe stuff that makes him vote in a way I don't like" going on here.

While the average person overestimates their own intelligence, the average techy dramatically underestimates the intelligence of the average member of the public. The weirdos that latch onto every fake video and silly conspiracy theory are dramatically overrepresented in every online comments thread, but supposed geniuses in the tech/NGO/academic community forget this and assume a broad swath of the public believes in stuff like "Pizza gate" because nuanced thinking is a skill only the enlightened few possess.

[someothherguyy]

Some people aren't very skeptical at baseline, it doesn't mean that those concerned about the ability of others to recognize AI are disparaging people based on intelligence.

For example, some people can be very intelligent, yet not be discerning of information that resonates with prior biases. You see this in those who are devoutly religious, politically polarized, etc.

There is reason to believe that such biases will lend to ontological misinterpretations from algorithmically generated information.

You can see mistakes in interpretation on a day to day basis by the population at large. There are swaths of widely held beliefs that aren't based in truth. Pretty much anyone is likely to believe at least some stereotype, folklore, urban legend, or myth.

[sergiogdr]

It isn’t about being smart (you assumed this is what ‘education’ was pointing at). Most people aren’t even aware of what’s happening besides extremely superficial things that they get here and there on the news. Can’t you honestly see the real potential for massive damage coming out of all this?

[pixelsort]

With respect to the American public, the majority can and do utilize nuanced thinking as a survival skill. The problem of modern American era, is not that our public is low in average intelligence. Rather, that on average, we have been miseducated to seek the eradication of discomfort, uncertainty, inconveniences, and unknowns.

[cma]

That radio station in hotel Rawanda could be a bad thing for you and people you cared about even if you personally could discern the lies so it wasn't fooling you.

[krisboyz781]

Actually you overestimate the general public's ability to discern what's real or not. On top of that, most people don't even care if it's real. This is exactly why Trump won.

Example: if a gen ai vid of a politician doing some crazy crime came out. Even if it were proven fake, people would start questioning everything and still act as if the politician were guilty

[JPKab]

"This is exactly why Trump won"

See the part of my comment you are replying to where I specifically stated that the motivation for all of this is that "Jethro doesn't vote the way I want him to". You've proven my point.

The censorious attitudes on HN were non-existent before Trump won in 2016. I know this for a fact. I've had my account on here since 2012, after 2 years of being just a reader.

Meanwhile, you overestimate how immune to misinformation and lies the average HN techy is. Just a few years ago, the majority of people on here believed, with utter conviction, that the bat-borne coronavirus lab in Wuhan had absolutely no connection with the bat-borne coronavirus epidemic that started in Wuhan and that only bigots and ignoramuses could draw such a conclusion. I experienced this whenever I brought up the blatantly obvious, common sense connection in these same comment threads in late 2020 or into mid 2021. The absolutely absurd denial of common sense by otherwise intelligent people was reminiscent of trying to talk to a religious fundamentalist about evolution while pointing at dinosaur fossils and having them continue to deny what was staring them in the face.

[sekai]

> "just be privileged as I was to get all the necessary education to be able to not be fooled by this tech". Yeah, very realistic and compassionate.

This has nothing to do with privilege, a person in Indian slums on his 2005 PC with internet access can have better internet BS radar than an Ivy League student.

[sergiogdr]

I think that would be an exception rather than the rule, to be honest.

I think though, that if you are in the position of doing serious critical reflection about this stuff, which is in my opinion necessary for being in a position of discernment wrt this stuff, then you are privileged. This is the idea I wanted to convey.

[JPKab]

What education do you specifically think is necessary for people with average IQs all over the world to not be fooled by this, given that they are aware that videos can easily be faked in 2024? A high school degree? A bachelors?

[gambiting]

>>given that they are aware that videos can easily be faked in 2024?

That's a ridiculous assumption. In my experience no one outside of tech circles is even remotely aware that this kind of thing is possible already.

[IAmGraydon]

With all due respect, I think you may be out of touch.

[JPKab]

You think that the average member of the public isn't aware that videos can be faked with AI, or non-AI special effects, and your source of data for this is "your own experience"? Really?

My family is mostly working class in an economically depressed part of the Virginia/West Virginia coal country, and every single one of them is aware of this. None of them work in tech, obviously. None have college degrees.

I maintain that the attitude driving this paternalistic, censorious attitude is arrogance and condescension.

A prime example of how broadly aware the public all over the world is of AI faked videos was the reaction in the Arab world to the October 7th videos posted by Hamas. A shocking (and depressing) percentage of Arabs, as well as non-Arab Muslims all over the world, believed the videos and pictures were fakes produced with AI. I don't remember the exact number, but the polling I saw in November showed it was over 50% who believed they were fakes in countries as disparate as Egypt and Indonesia.

[gambiting]

>>isn't aware that videos can be faked with AI, or non-AI special effects

These two are very different things. My family believes all kinds of videos on the internet are fake. None of them have any idea what a tool like Sora can do. The gap between "oh this was probably special effects" to "you have to notice pixels shimmering around someone's hand to tell" is enormous.

>>My family is mostly working class in an economically depressed part of the Virginia/West Virginia coal country, and every single one of them is aware of this.

Your working class family has time to keep up with the advancements in generative AI for video? They have more free time than I do then. If we're sharing anecdotes about families then my family is from Polish coal country and their idea of AI is talking to your car and it responding poorly.

>>I maintain that the attitude driving this paternalistic, censorious attitude is arrogance and condescension.

I'm confused - who is displaying this "censorious" attitude here?

>> and your source of data for this is "your own experience"? Really?

Yes, really. I mean do you have anything else? You are also quoting things from your own experience.

[sergiogdr]

I’m not (exclusively) talking about formal education. There are lots of people (I would dare say the majority of the planet) that don’t have the ‘digital literacy’ required to handle what’s happening right now. Being from a developed country I am very much worried about this.

[8n4vidtmkvmk]

Fooled by what? Some of it looks real but is incredulous enough that it should set off your BS sensor. Other stuff is/will be more subtle and we will have no way of knowing.