[jasode]

>, I have an altendorf handguard sliding table saw, which will stop as fast as the sawstop,

The alternative approaches from other industrial saw manufacturers that are "non-contact non-destructive" are interesting:

- cameras and machine learning used by Altendorf "Hand Guard": https://www.altendorfgroup.com/en-us/machines/altendorf-hand...

- inductive proximity (same science as Theremin[1]) used by Felder "PCS Preventative Contact System" : https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/pcs

- SCM "Blade Off" (not sure of detection method ... looks like inductive proximity) : https://www.scmgroup.com/en_US/scmwood/products/joinery-mach...

But I've heard reports from 3rd-parties that Altendorf's camera detection method is unreliable/glitchy and doesn't work as well as Felder's system. Maybe Altendorf fixed the bugs.

Also, Altendorf's philosophy of using cameras & ML instead of inductive proximity reminds me of Tesla's philosophy using cameras instead of LIDAR (Waymo).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin

EDIT ADD: >I'm not sure how comparable these alternatives are when two of them are "request a quote" kind of pricing, and the Altendorf is $7000+

My comment was about "industrial saws" so they're definitely not realistic alternatives to buying a jobsite SawStop for homeowners. I added italics to the adjective "industrial" to clarify this.

[miunau]

I'm not sure how comparable these alternatives are when two of them are "request a quote" kind of pricing, and the Altendorf is $7000+, unless you're considering an entire cabinet. None of them will go on a job site with you, for example. I would love to test the Felder system though.

[dylan604]

There's no way I'm trusting the safety of my fingers to today's ML abilities reading a live camera feed.

[rahkiin]

If you don’t have this extra feature, all your safety depends on you. That still is the case.

[dylan604]

Do you work for Tesla FSD? That's exactly their stance. If I'm still dependent, then it doesn't do what it says on the tin. I want my money back.

[FridgeSeal]

“Pay money for this feature”

“Ok, here’s your money”

“By the way, to use the feature, you actually just do it yourself and then pretend the product did it”

[zdragnar]

That depends on how they fail. If they trigger on false positives, that's money wasted on lost time and damaged equipment.

On the flip side, if they fail a real case, it may well be because they engendered a false sense of safety, a bit like a sharp knife being safer than a dull one.

[kube-system]

People exhibit different behaviors of risk taking when they know there are safety systems in place to protect them.

[dylan604]

Never mind the extra money spent on a "safe" saw vs the one without.

[Blackthorn]

Yeah, they aren't comparable in the least. These companies use it for market segmentation. You'll only get this on the ridiculously expensive table saws. Whereas a Sawstop cabinet saw (the industrial one!), still expensive for an American-style table saw, is a fraction of the price. In the case of Felder, 10% the price!

[kurthr]

Totally agree, and wouldn't really comment on it except to say that the cheapest Sawstop is $1-3k even on blackfriday. That's not really in the same league as other jobsite saws that are $100-300.

Each one really is a ~10x step in cost above the other. Of course quality and safety/reliability are higher too, and I know which I'd buy. But, comparable only sort-of.

[horsawlarway]

Sawstop is really only about 2-3x the price of an equivalent saw. It's not 10x more.

The 100/200 dollar table saws are not really comparable (at a basic spec level, they're just not the same thing - 8" blades, smaller table, no fence)

Most reasonable products you would actually buy for a jobsite are in the $500 range. The same Sawstop is 1500. The cheap no-stand versions are $300. The same Sawstop is 900. Pretty sure they're targeting 3x as the price.

[andrewaylett]

Sub-$1k list price now, with https://www.sawstop.com/product/compact-table-saw/ being $899.

Still a pretty fair assessment, though.

[lupusreal]

> Also, Altendorf's philosophy of using cameras & ML instead of inductive proximity reminds me of Tesla's philosophy using cameras instead of LIDAR (Waymo).

Kind of seems like the opposite. I could be wrong, but in the case of the saw the cameras/AI are probably more expensive to develop and deploy than the inductive sensing. With the cars though, it's the cheaper option for sure.

[formerly_proven]

I don’t see the point of a Sawstop-type system for an Altendorf-style panel saw. The whole point of that saw design is that your hands are nowhere near the blade!