Dead Internet Theory?

[ravenhappy]

A beloved family member is convinced that a terrible idea that they have found online is real and true. They believe they have evidence in the sense of providing links to supportive online content. I have been trying to connect with them, and find a way to help them. Their current state is distraught and anxious. Just now I was thinking that maybe helping them to understand that anything online is suspect, "take it with a grain of salt!", which is something I learned early, last millennium, would be helpful. I specifically and definitely(!) remember hearing about the dead internet theory in 2012, yet, I can't find any good references from then! I've googled, archive.org'd (unskillfully), and even thought to check Yandex, but balked at enabling js. Here's my question: can anyone here provide an origin or references for the "Dead Internet" theory? (That predate 2016, which is when Wikipedia says the idea occurred)

[clejack]

Instead of trying to disprove the dead Internet theory, try asking your friend about it. Ask why they believe it. Ask why it matters. Ask why it matters in the context of the real world with its real, living people. You probably won't be able to walk them back with evidence, but you might be able to walk them back by unraveling them with their own thought process.

See if you can take a walk at the park with this person and just observe the world. The Internet came to be not very long ago, the idea of allowing yourself to fall apart due to its decayed state is silly.

[talldayo]

It used to be a 4chan copypasta. KnowYourMeme[0] says it started in 2019 but I want to say that I remember it well before 2016, maybe as early back as 2012 (?)

I guess the biggest thing to understand is that a lot of 4chan users (on /pol/ and /x/ and plenty other places) just make up stuff as bear-baiting pranks on their fellow users who are typically very vulnerable[1]. Dead internet theory is something that inherently appeals to people that feel put-out by society and ostracized from the rest of the internet at-large. People buy into this shtick because they feel as though the internet ignores them, or that coincidences in a pool of billions of users confirms that it's all The Matrix somehow. It's a very fast-and-loose mentality that traditionally strings together conspiracy theories to make a compelling narrative.

I'd suggest helping your family member find real-life support that affirms their faith in humanity. The internet is not all there is to life, and even if it was all controlled by a shadow organization there would still be reason for hope. With a bit of perspective, it's easy to see why total control over digital information is neither desirable nor entirely possible.

[0] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/dead-internet-theory

[1] https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/832431-iphone

[ravenhappy]

Thank you for your response. I'm sorry, because now when I read my original submission I see that it is ambiguous. The "terrible idea" that causes my beloved family member grief is not the dead internet theory. I intentionally didn't share the scary idea that they've latched on to. My question about the dead internet theory is related to my (perhaps foolish) idea that sharing the truth of ambiguity re online content might help. And then, trying to find a good source for the Dead Internet theory, I couldn't!

[anenefan]

OK I'd gather you're dealing with someone I'd probably consider a woo-woo or zombie sheep depending on their affliction. (Woo-woo think the likes of flat earthers where if any two of them a couple hundred miles apart, had mobile phones, a spirit level and a tape measure would surely discover for themselves the concept to be in error, vs a zombie sheep more often simply followed a rabbit hole past any point provable fact and simply believes, trusting the people responsible (content creators) are experts / totally credible and would not lie to them.)

Sadly in recent years the number of people who've lost critical thinking and constructive communication skills has been growing and zombie grooming news and social media areas certainly hasn't helped the situation. Too many people can sit in a social media area safe from legitimate discussions that might challenge any poor or poorly informed ideas they have, and instead they can hog down on a content feed that more than likely allows them to reaffirm some beliefs they already have come to see as fact.

People with very warped views are usually hard to reason with, typically it's not a case of just summing up the facts or making a very good argument to reason with them, typically the problem is dealing with their denial[1]. Pretty much even in real life is the same as dealing with someone online who is also Stone Deaf [2] For instance presently I have a brother who has followed a youtube rabbit hole and has wholeheartedly bought into the idea that Limosilactobacillus reuteri [3] has become somewhat near extinct since 1950 so much so he invested in a kit to grow them to help supplement his diet ... even before he handed over any money, he carried on like a pork chop ranting / screeching when I've informed him that it's not that extinct - insisting instead the areas of the internet I'm read where it's reported / suggests not that extinct ... those areas are not very factual ...

The Dead Internet Theory. Not heard it put quite that way, though I know in the 00's to have noted those convinced []The Matrix[] was their reality, and from late 00s I'd noted many netizens complain the web was dying but were often dismissed as many were simply moving to social media and the person complaining just needed to get with the times. But as a theory - well yes and no and the idea the net was dying has long been asserted by numerous people including myself but for entirely different and more levelled reasons - I find it quite amusing that this present concept includes AI fears and world wide effort to conspire some large scale smoke and mirrors for nefarious reasons.

On my time off, not at work after 2002 to about 2015, I typically found myself online most nights conducting a great number of searches on behalf of various people online at forums who wanted certain and accurate information or driver files for obscure equipment from the 90s. By 2012 I was certainly trumpeting the issues to be had with any success on my part, might be not much better than their own efforts as various companies and entities were actively fighting against any sharing of technical information which would be very useful to the DIY or fix it yourself market, more popularly by obfuscating the information though various methods like []Flooding[] -- something which I had observed for quite some time. I don't know how many time I looked for engine settings and got thousands of BS sites advertising manuals (most with all the same template) and for a time easily beaten as there were working search tools to filter out 99.9% of the BS from the results required. Albeit the truth of endless low quality sites and information of the net and inability for search engines to just ignore it is somewhat more benign than a world wide conspiracy to befuddle the population -- but of course what better way to dispel, disprove and discredit that any company or other entity are seeing off useful information, by whatever means such as filling up much of the searchable net with scam / spam rubbish results and sites, than to promote a conspiracy that's an over-the-top, mutated and extrapolated version of reality and dangle it for the unsuspecting ever vigilant zombie sheep whom are near always 100% sure they'd know BS if they ever saw it.

As an example of where information is simply seemingly removed from the web, try finding the always present component in extra virgin olive oil that some people react very badly to. I was surprised recently to find that tracking down that information was not possible via various search engines, and yet in the 00s when I first found out I was n fact not alone and searched online, I'm sure even wikipedia had information in regard to that troublesome component which is removed with lots of refining and somewhat safer for those like myself, who react not so well to extra virgin olive oil (EVOO). Instead present day results at best, suggest it might cause some people discomfort due to contamination or various processing procedures eg [4]. From what I first ran across back in 00s via multiple sound sites, it was present in all EVOO and refining the EVOO to death allowed people like myself and those who react much more violently, to tolerate the resulting olive oil better - of course I just avoid it and anything made on the oil just to be on the safe side.

[1] https://www.simplypsychology.org/defense-mechanisms.html#Den... [2] https://www.politicsforum.org/flame-warriors/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_reuteri [4] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/978111846041...

[ravenhappy]

Berenstein

[anenefan]

Not what I was expecting ... people do misremember stuff - something most of us do just for the most part never ever realise as such, and when we do, we generally admit to ourselves we're not totally infallible.

Well if it were me, I'd avoid the internet altogether and I'd be hunting for old vhs tapes of the show [1] or find an old book from the series - if you're fortunate, your local public library doesn't renew all its books every 10 or 20 years.

[1] https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/a/chaz-kangas/berenstain... (near the bottom of page mentioning the tv version that pronounced it as 'stein' though the working title is 'stain')

[big-green-man]

https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?threads/dead-internet-...

[DemocracyFTW2]

> balked at enabling js

so you're afraid of JavaScript but want to help someone who got stuck on a ridiculous conspiracy theory?

Try find some funny and insightful video on Birds Are Not Real, which is a prank some people did years ago to demonstrate that some people believe arbitrary sh*t.

[ravenhappy]

Come on now, please don't be mean! I'm pragmatic and JavaScript has been capable of exploiting speculative execution issues for a long time. I feel like I'm being cautious, and don't feel fearful, but, you, like my beloved family member, seem to think I'm the crazy one.

[DemocracyFTW2]

not crazy, just overly cautious.

[whatnotests2]

I went through something like this with my ex.

One day, she was fine.

The next day, it was all about The Beatles conspiracy theories which never seem to end. Ever.

I stuck with her for two years before finally, reluctantly, leaving. We divorced a few years later, by which time her psychotic break had finished.

It was truly awful. I didn't understand it at the time, and was angry then guilty. I should have dragged her to a hospital for examination, but I didn't.

Get your friend some professional help.