[AnimalMuppet]

I know the verse you're talking about. Jesus is talking about the result of his teachings, about what happens when people follow him. Other people will turn away, hate them, and fight them.

But he also said to love your enemies. Those people who turn away and are at enmity with you? Love them anyway.

And it doesn't sound like you do.

(2 Timothy 3 is talking about people in the church. Jesus is talking about people outside. If you want to say that your parents don't belong in church, fine. If discernment tells you to treat them like unbelievers, fine. But the contempt and bitterness doesn't sound right coming from someone quoting Jesus.)

[MrMcCall]

I do love my enemies, but they have to want to hear the truth. It is their human right to be ignorant and ignore God's Wisdom. And I treat them well, though they so loath the truth that they don't call anymore. They are supporting people who actively work against everything Jesus lived for, and those people are making the world much worse for my children, their effing grandchildren!

And you are not reading 2 Timothy 3 correctly. The first five verses are a set of qualities that the loathsome choose to manifest, and it ends with a Command, "Have nothing to do with such people."

That verse is about people, whether in a church or not. It's about people in "terrible times". And the Command is clear. It also includes -- for those whose minds have been clarified by loving God -- the implicit Command to not support their being a leader.

Was Jesus loving his enemies when he threw the moneychangers out of the Temple? He sure was, my friend. My father called it "tough love", and my love for him will save him from the fate of all cruelly ignorant hypocrites, if only he'd listen to the effing truth.

The fact is that my prayers for them carry no weight in the presense of their willful ignorance. Their free will is respected by God just as much as mine, but I don't believe Jesus will save my sins on the Judgement Day; I choose to repent now and become a better person while I live so that I might bring God's light of loving service to all the people I can reach.

Jesus even says, "That which you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me." The fakeass Christians will learn the meaning of those verses on that Day of Days, but, by then, it will be too late. We are judged for what we do here on Earth, while we live.

[AnimalMuppet]

> The fakeass Christians will learn the meaning of those verses on that Day of Days, but, by then, it will be too late.

Yup.

> We are judged for what we do here on Earth, while we live.

Be very careful with that.

"But we did all this stuff!"

"Depart from me, for I never knew you."

Any real "knowing Him" will change us, and thereby change our actions. But be very careful of depending on the actions.

Yes, there will be a judgment for what we do, but that will be for reward, not for "in or out".

[MrMcCall]

Judgement is heaven or hell, reward or punishment. What other outcome can there be?

Knowing Him is to follow God's commands and to love God with all your being and then love your neighbor as yourself. And to seek and find the meaning of "Hallowed be Thy Name", and other mysteries.

Intention is the multiplier for our actions, and that product is what we are judged upon. It's how the well-intentioned act of charity is weighed differently from giving charity in order to tell people, or merely for tax breaks.

Our change comes in degrees, over time with honest self-evaluation and effort, failures with apologies and, eventually, successes, until we see Its Face, and thereafter be "pure in heart", another "servant of all" taking their place as "the greatest among us".

It starts with begging God to take Its Spirit (our Conscience) back into Itself while we live, so that our soul may be cleansed and purified of its vices. That is the meaning of the 1st Beatitude, "Blessed are the poor in Spirit, for theirs shall be the Kingdom of God."

Then we have to slog through and overcome our selfishnesses, to the end, as described by the 5th (IIRC) Beatitude, by learning how to choose selfless service to others over selfishness.

Most people believe Jesus will forgive them on the JD, just because they say some words; many Muslims believe the same but with different words, and many Buddhists believe we just keep getting more chances. No. Those are lies of the deceiver of man, who works on our minds and hearts.

We get one chance on this Earth, for good or ill, and everything about our choices is knowable as to whether it harmonizes with God's teachings. It is up to us to seek that truth, humbly and honestly, and without the misguided corruptions brought by generations of telephone, whereby human beings have been led away from the Truth of Love.

Peace be with you. We love you. I am at your service.

[AnimalMuppet]

> It starts with begging God to take Its Spirit back into Itself while we live, so that our soul may be cleansed and purified of its vices. That is the meaning of the 1st Beatitude, "Blessed are the poor in Spirit, for theirs shall be the Kingdom of God."

That sounds like you took the Bible and some flavor of New Age stuff, threw them in a blender, and drank whatever came out. That's something weird, but it's not Biblical theology.

> Then we have to slog through and overcome our selfishnesses, to the end, as described by the 5th (IIRC) Beatitude, by learning how to choose selfless service to others over selfishness.

If you're trying to slog through that, on your effort and self-discipline, you're never going to get there. Neither am I. I am more broken than that; sin runs deeper in me than that. And in you.

I wish you truth, but in love I have to say that I don't think you really have it.

I leave you the last word if you want it.

[MrMcCall]

> That's something weird, but it's not Biblical theology.

It's called Hidayat, and it comes from Sufism.

When Jesus says, in John 16:12-13, that:

"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

That is Jesus pointing the way, because God knew that Jesus' book would be perverted by the liars and ignorant and haughty, in the same way that many translators and "explainers" of the Quran have distorted key concepts, such as Hidayat, which is the Spirit's journey back to its Creator (1st Beatitude), thus allowing our soul to be cleansed and purified of its vices ("to love God with all your soul").

The only purpose of religion is to maximize our selfless loving kindness to those around us so that we all can live in peace and happiness and prosperity on this Garden.

The Catholic Church left that path a long time ago, which is why they persecuted a true lover of God, St. Francis of Assisi, and also why they (and many other "faiths") sexually abuse so many children, and are now declaring bankruptcy instead of paying the settlements meant to help those whose lives they severely damaged. But their love of money (gotta keep those coffers full!) is more important than children to them, and we know what Jesus says about that, right? I mean, that's why they kept it under wraps, kept shuffling the abusers around, and have now paid over $4B to attorneys (I don't believe that even counts the settlements, but I could be wrong about that).

As to Biblical theology, I take it with the same grain of salt as mainsteam Islamic teaching. They have been confused by the enemy of man, and woe is the result for them, their followers, and the people they harm through their selfish ignorance. That doesn't mean individuals of those faiths can't connect with God and rise above their leaders' or teachings' hypcocrisy, ignorance, oppression, pride and all the other vices that go with it.

[Side note: The first judoka who has ever won the European Championships, Worlds, and Olympics in the same year (2024) is an Azeri named "Hidayat Heyderov" -- check out his smile. His ascension was not anything like a sure bet, but his name and smile are just part of God's Mysterious Ways. But so is my name, for that matter, though not as important has Hidayat's.]

> If you're trying to slog through that, on your effort and self-discipline ...

Yes, we do have to exert an enormous effort to defeat our selfish weaknesses, but you are right: we cannot do this on our own, though our inital efforts are important as spoken of in Matthew 7:7:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you"

Ridding ourselves of our selfish vices of the soul is only accomplished with the help of our Creator, and utilizes the meaning of "Hallowed be Thy Name", which for Jesus and his followers would be Yah-weh. In Arabic, it's Al-lah, in other languages: Di-os, De-us, Brah-man, Nn-guy, etc. Each language having their own two-syllable Name of God, to sync with our heartbeat.

You can recognize the person who has made a bit of progress along the Way because they have been humbled by our needing so much grace to get anywhere against this terrible enemy, that is both an external force of temptation and an internal susceptibility (our soul's vices). Along the way, we develop our compassion, gratitude, mercy, kindness, generosity, gentleness, and truthfulness, to name but a few of the 19 virtues of the soul that each have a corresponding vice, everything in the universe having been created in pairs. The role of Wishing to Reach Yahweh with One's Spirit (Conscience) and the practice of Zikr (described below) are to literally "enlighten" our soul's heart with Glories to reduce and ultimately completely remove the conduit within our souls that facilitates the communication of selfish impulses from our enemy. This is the literal, physical (in our soul's parallel dimension) definition of "transmutation of the soul".

We are to repeat our chosen Name of God throughout the day, as much as possible, until we "Love God with all our [being]". That is what helps us to be able to "love our neighbors as ourself", in degrees as we progress over time. It is called Zikr in the Quran. It is not counted as a requirement (farz) by mainstream Islam, but is commanded three separate times, with differing amounts per day: some, a lot (over half the day), and continuously (that coincides with fully submitting our soul to the Divine Will, "with all your soul"). That Grace of soul purification happens a short-ish time before we actually see "God's Face". That person then becomes an Annointed Teacher (Murshid), is then "pure of heart", having thus submitted not only their soul, but their free will, too. I've met two such Muslim Sufi men and the student of a Christian man whose teacher was also such a one.

Such men are a sublime combination of the innocence of a child and the deepest Wisdom, which is actually the case, in both dimensions.

> I wish you truth, but in love I have to say that I don't think you really have it.

I already knew that, my friend, both that that's what you believed and that you are not evil-minded or -hearted, and that this is your compassionately honest initial reaction to this new information after your lifetime of really, really trying. That is why we are having this conversaion.

But you can find no fault with what I say (though likely in how I say it, for I am not a fully submitted person, so another vice of the soul, pride, is still at work in me, to some extent; I apologize for my coarseness) for the logic is unassailable, as it is the absolute Truth.

You have no reason to doubt my being the person presenting the logic I present here, for I ask for nothing for myself, and only wish you and the entire world to be happy. We would never ask you to accept Islam (or any other religion, for that matter); we only suggest that you go within yourself and ask God to point your way forward, perhaps even asking God if what I have shared with everyone today is, indeed, the Truth. That is all any of us is required to do in order to begin becoming a better human manifestation of God's Loving Wisdom. This why Rumi (a fully submitted person and a rather vulgar poet at times) said, "The Way goes in."

The only argument you will find will appear in your mind and heart from the enemy of mankind, the enemy of happiness, who ever seeks to derail us from the happiness we are capable of when we submit our beings to the Divine Will. It defends the ignorance it convinces us to choose with its deceits, because its very destructively active existence in our being and in our cultures depends on our willful ignorance (another vice of the soul). That negative entity only manifests itself in our Earthly plane within our hearts and minds and, physically, via willfully ignorant human beings acting on its behalf, by their misguided use of their free will.

If you ever have questions, you can find me. Peace be with you. We love you. Thank you very much for inspiring me this day. And thank you, dang et al, for allowing this "Sufi Science of the Soul's Perfection" to be communicated here. You are receiving blessings for allowing your boxen to facilitate me speaking of our humanity's highest potential: the journey to and personal arrival at selfless loving kindness in service to all mankind, and the Earth herself, where all human beings are respected, even if their actions deserve righteous criticism for the benefit of the whole.

[And, Mr. Muppet, please feel free to ask more questions, going back on a questionable promise is the best course of action. The amount of joy I feel today is even better than the day I missed my exit to our house-based masjid, but then offered a ride to a woman walking home in the rain, whereby she showed me the bottle of Extra Strength Tylenol she had just bought and swallowed half of. I asked her if she would let me take her to the fire station, and she let me, Praise be to God! We spent some hours at the hospital together; she was an extraordinary person in a difficult situation.

The enemy of man tries to convince every single human being to commit suicide; it's just one way that evil bastard works on us all. Thank God I resisted his reasons those many years ago when he put me to his screws, but my resistance and being saved was solely through the Grace of God!]

Everything I say on HN (from this to tech commentary to history to jokes) is truthfully communicated knowing that I shall face my words' veracity on the JD. I love you all! And thank you very much.