[redonyo]

> If solar/wind/batteries/nuclear/hydro/whatever is better than oil, and there are high tariffs, the result will be onshore production of those technologies

Better along what metric? In a market, the axis is going to be cost which tariffs impact

[fastball]

Chinese solar panels being cheaper is not "better technology" which is what I was responding to – that's just China producing things cheaper, for a variety of reasons.

If solar panels in general are a better tech (by whatever metric), then tariffing chinese solar panels and not subsidizing oil should result in more American solar panels being produced and beating out oil.

[russli1993]

But Chinese solar companies do have the best products. Longi ships panels with 25.4% efficiency today. First solar's best is 19.7%. That is a multiple generation gap. And longi is on track to go commercial tandem cells that have over 32% efficiency. There is no reason to choose First solar over longi in free competition. First solar has market share entirely due to non-market barriers, like tariffs, non market access, political connections, unfair subsidies.

[fastball]

Is LONGi "free competition"? They haven't been given a leg up by the CCP in any way?

[russli1993]

The only leg up ccp gave is providing the consumer market for solar, and just let all solar players brawl in the market. And the government standards kept going up to force manufacturers improve their products.

The extremely tough competition in Chinese market meant they worked extremely hard. First Solar would not have survived if they are in the same competition in China.

And did the Chinese stole IP from Americans that Americans don't even have? What does it take for people to understand Chinese people are people too, they are just like you, living and breathing human beings. No one is inferior, no one is dumber. People can be as just as capable.

I can also say industrial policy will fail. The primary reason Chinese companies, like solar and EVs, are where they are now is because extreme hard work and competition. The best thing happened to Chinese EV industry is inviting Tesla into the market, and everyone tried to create a more competitive product and leapfrog Tesla. Westerners say Chinese ppl don't like foreign companies and are nationalist is brainwashed by western media. Domestic brands are considered inferior, Tesla hold the prestige. But as companies are coming up with more leapfrogging products they are changing people's perceptions and mindshare. The biggest thing for domestic car companies they seem to successfully transformed Chinese people's perceptions of Chinese brands. People are no longer mindless envy international brands. If you seen how hard they worked, you will appreciate. They make Elon musk's hard work look easy. They won it fair and square. And they are not against just Tesla, in luxury segment, they are against BWM, Mercedes, Porsche. In mainstream, Ford, GM, Toyota. Decades of brand prestige and reputations.

and first solar is definitely being propped up by the US government. Longi's products can be more expensive than first solar's and there is still no reason to choose them. It just a better product

[fastball]

Why do you think the Chinese domestic market is more competitive than the US domestic market? Do Americans not also like having the best solar panels?