[raganwald]

I have great sympathy for your point that pragmatism has tremendous value. I disagree in a trifling way with statements like “The world needs C not Lisp,” it is obvious to me that the world needs both C and Lisp. Or it did, and both have contributed in various ways to progress, and C continues to be a useful tool.

The interesting thing is that insanely great progress requires operating at all levels of the hierarchy. Consider the oft-quoted maxim, “Real artists ship.” This does not suggest that there is no room for dreaming, but rather that the highest form of artistry is the application of pragmatism to manifesting our dreams.

[frankc]

First of all, I think my statement "the world needs C not Lisp" was meant to be taken metaphorically, not literally. Of course there is a place for Lisp, but at the end of the day, who has gotten more done in the real world? That certainly hasn't stopped the Lisp hackers from looking down their noses, however.

The bottom line is that the sense I get from the kinds of rhetoric in the OP is not the kind of high-minded idealism you express but rather just a bunch of software aestheticians casting value judgements on the people who are focused on making things happen. My perception could be wrong, I'll grant you that.

[tom_b]

"the highest form of artistry is the application of pragmatism to manifesting our dreams"

Have been sitting on that sentence just waiting to use it or are you feeling particularly poetic today?

Thanks either way. Very nicely phrased.