[southernplaces7]

It's amusing to see people here continuing to recommend Google tools for core aspects of some shiny, fragile, new startup despite so many, many posts and comments on HN having been placed time and time again describing how arbitrary that monster can be about cutting you completely down from whatever it offers you for some bullshit algorithmic reason or another, and with near zero customer service recourse.

By now Google often acts worse than the complaints departments of many government agencies, which at least usually by law have to have a human accesible to you somewhere along the line. Yet it keeps getting recommended by either the clueless or the indifferent.

[millzlane]

Yea, my dumbass used Google voice as my main 2fa number and recently lost access to it. Can't get it back and I'm locked out of everything. Don't be like me. Google really can't be trusted for personal or business use. If I could talk to a human and pay $100 for it I would.

[getlawgdon]

Please don't say that. I can absolutely see google charging for customer service.

[syncbehind]

Welcome to nightvale

[coldtrait]

I used to live in the US and use voice as my primary number for everything. I don't think there is a better option.

[nyclounge]

Not for free!

When you are not paying for the product then you are the product!!

But it is NOT that hard for HN community to get VOIP number over SIP. All the smart phones have a sip client now days.

[millzlane]

Just use it everyday and you'll be good.

[_blk]

Doesn't seem to do too well with foreign numbers. Never had issues calling but 2FA texts don't come through.

[authorfly]

Problem is eventually you need it for Google Ads, or YouTube really for many things. And none of them are "vital" if they go wrong. They aren't core income pipeline parts. And then you get sucked in.

B2B and go to a conference? Where are you putting your video demo reels/talks? YouTube

Consumer and testing marketing messages for something non-consumer? Google Ads.

Your B2B client wants you to provide your SaaS via a private endpoint on GCP? What else are you going to do than use GCP?

Then once you are on it on company computers, it's a short walk to Google Docs and then Google Workspace, etc.

[southernplaces7]

Needing Google occasionally is understandable but keeping it to a minimum and as disconnected as possible from core business functionality, and as replaceable as possible if things go sideways with its brainless algorithms, is absolutely doable.

Please, enough justification for why almost anyone generally "needs" Google.

For example:

>B2B and go to a conference? Where are you putting your video demo reels/talks? YouTube

Really? Simply no alternatives exist? I guess Vimeo is just a curious internet legend.

>Your B2B client wants you to provide your SaaS via a private endpoint on GCP? What else are you going to do than use GCP?

So explain to the client why you prefer not to use Google, but if they insist, then keep it specific to them and avoid it for anything generally essential to your business. You state this as if nearly a dozen alternatives to Google Cloud don't exist.

>Then once you are on it on company computers, it's a short walk to Google Docs and then Google Workspace, etc.

Don't take that short walk then, take another one instead.

The point is that alternative solutions do usually exist and even where Google becomes unavoidable, it absolutely shouldn't mean having to fully embrace its services.

[authorfly]

I agree with you as a technical guy. It's not the worst. But as to why is happens:

If your business-focused founder or Marketing guy is going to the conference, it'll be Youtube, even though Vimeo is accessible. Unless you go make the account, share it to them, and have a SOP, why would they look at Vimeo?

The problem is when you get any sort of size the non-tech people choose Google as a default and then it (with weak force) slowly black holes up what they do. Just like people chose Microsoft Office (and still do for mature corps) for all kinds of admin, not necessarily technical people using Google (although I would say >80% of the tech graduate emails I am given for contact past graduation are gmail which is a sign of the times!)

[frognumber]

The rule is simple. Google is fine for anything not in the critical path.

Need something to spread on social media? Fine. Post on Twitter, Facebook, Google, go nuts.

Never use Google (or other sketchy vendors) for anything you need to rely on to be there tomorrow.

Example: Youtube is fine for promotional materials. If you run an ed-tech and need videos to be there for students (core business), pay for something which works.

Example: Running a Black Friday promotion? Adwords. Relying on Google SEO for your main business as the main way to recruit customers? Bad idea.

You get one exception to this if you're building a Google-centric business. Is your business an Android App? You obviously get to use Android in your core business. If your business a Youtube channel? You get to use Youtube.

Things like Google Workspace, Google Cloud Platform, etc. are out. If, tomorrow, Google decides to wipe all you Google Workspace data (yes, it did this to a startup I was involved with), you're DOA. Office 365 is annoying compared to Google Workspace, but still worth it, since Microsoft won't wipe out your business as a statistic.

The way I think about this is each business has risks which multiply out:

(failed to execute technically) * (odds of market fit failing) * (odds of not being defrauded by your co-founder) * ....

This should multiply out to how likely your startup is to succeed. The way exponentials work, most of those risks need to be very, very low. You get one, maybe two, big ones. Every Google product in the core critical path has perhaps 10% odds of wiping out your business. Adopting Android is totally worth it if your business is Pokemon Go, but for most aspects of your business, pick trustworthy vendors.