[fabian2k]

> Most of those I've spoken to agree that a serious breach of these principles was in 2022, when Musk tweeted: "My pronouns are Prosecute/Fauci", thereby managing to simultaneously offend the LGBTQ community, express an antivaxx sentiment, and put Fauci, already under attack from antivaxxers, at further risk.

This statement is clearly relevant to a scientific society. It is not just about unrelated bigotry by a fellow of that society.

[hagbard_c]

Given that I'm listening to Kennedy's The Real Anthony Fauci while typing this I have a hard time taking this seriously. Both the 'offend the alphabet community' (whatever that might be given that there is no love lost between the L and Q, G and Q, B and Q, L and T and G and T factions in this 'community') as well as the defence of Fauci, a person who declared himself representing The Science™ while recklessly trampling its principles.

Does that mean that everything Kennedy writes and says is the true gospel? Of course it doesn't nor does it need to. What it does say is that Fauci is not the person I'd choose as a representative for how to do science and that prosecuting the man sounds like a good idea. After all, if he is innocent he has nothing to fear, right? Let this cesspit be opened and let those who are shown to have to have abused their power, misled the public and acted for personal gain and against the trust put in them by the public be dealt with. In short, let The Science™ be exposed for what it is, a sham. Let the trust in lower-case science, scientists and the scientific method be restored by exposing the charlatans who sought to abuse the former's standing for their own purposes.

[fabian2k]

If the conspiracy theorist RFK Jr. is who you get your information from, I can't help you.

[hagbard_c]

I get my data and information from many places, both officially sanctioned as well as those which are in opposition to those sources. I also use a good dose of scepticism when dealing with all sources, both the former as well as the latter.

Where do you get your information?

[cies]

There are many doctors who express problems with the C19 vaccines. In some countries (most notably Japan) there are public hearings and parliament questions. In the west it seems this is not allowed.

Fauci was close with the EcoHealth Alliance. He tried to hide gain of function research. There are a lot of criticism to this NGO, "including a joint letter signed by 77 Nobel laureates and 31 scientific societies." (Wikipedia).

To the public Fauci straight up lied by promoting the vaccine as safe and effective, while he did not have the evidence to support that (and most likely did know that pregnant women in the trail had a lot of "spontaneous abortions", but recommended it for pregnant women anyway).

While I'd be the last person to defend Elon (he prevented unionization in Tesla, which he so get jail time for imho), I do think that it's time to prosecute Fauci. He seems to have been complicity in the AZT debacle.

Sticking it in a pronoun joke is something we should not cry over, it's just a joke.

[VMG]

> and most likely did know that pregnant women in the trail had a lot of "spontaneous abortions"

This is incorrect information

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10152171/

Pregnant women are at higher risk of getting COVID which is liked to preterm birth

[tgma]

And if you were a scientist who was going to lead a study that could conclude otherwise, Francis & Fauci took extra care to make sure you were less likely to receive NIH funding.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/05/how-collins-and-fauci...

[VMG]

just look at the table of the studies that were included and the countries where the studies were performed

[bondarchuk]

That's from 2023.

[fabian2k]

The vaccines worked and saved a lot of lives. There were very rare side effects, and once those were recognized they were addressed in various ways, e.g. by changing the groups that should receive the vaccines.

The part about abortions sounds like a blatant conspiracy theory.

There are some indications that the rules around gain of function research were not followed in some cases. I certainly think that merits investigating and I'm partial towards prohibiting most gain of function research. Doesn't mean publicly attacking Fauci is any reasonable way of doing this.

[mdp2021]

> very rare side effects

Still in these very days we meet random people who in normal random conversation tell us (as part of other matters) of coincidental devastating effects.

How did you make that jump from "paper" to "reality", and hold it with the certainty of "a hedgehog here is vomiting on my shoes"? Do not bring us back to that long epiphany that the "dark ages" are still here, never gone.

[aeze]

> Still in these very days we meet random people who in normal random conversation tell us (as part of other matters) of coincidental devastating effects.

You may have. I haven't met anyone who has had any effects other than feeling mildly sick for a day or two afterwards. That's the thing about anecdotal evidence.

[didntcheck]

> were very rare side effects, and once those were recognized they were addressed in various ways

Such as initially calling it all misinformation, and asking social media to censor it

[cies]

> The part about abortions sounds like a blatant conspiracy theory.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/was-covid-v...

Many countries are stopping the vaccine/booster rollout to the pregnant. They make up funny reasons, but it's safe to consider they know more than we do and simply dont want the data out there.

Govts and big pharma really do not want the data to be analyzed. And they should actually most supportive of showing all available data (anonymized obviously).

https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350147366/ex-public-servan...

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/health-law-and-business/why-a-...

It's not a consp theory: the FDA, CDC and big pharma have clearly conspired against us, trying to make the C19 vaccine look better, vilifying everyone who did not want it.

[VMG]

> Many countries are stopping the vaccine/booster rollout to the pregnant.

Since you mentioned Japan, I wondered if you meant that country

> 【Q3】 Can I still get the vaccine if I am pregnant, breastfeeding, or planning to become pregnant?

> Yes, you can get the vaccine. There have been no reports that the COVID-19 vaccines approved in Japan has any adverse effects on pregnancy, fetus, breast milk, or reproductive organs. Vaccination is recommended regardless of the time of pregnancy.

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/covid-19/qa_vaccine.html#:~:text=....

Maybe you meant Europe?

> Several studies have shown that messenger RNA (mRNA) COVID-19 vaccines do not cause complications in pregnancy, either for expectant mothers or their babies.

> On the contrary, COVID-19 vaccines protect expectant mothers and their babies.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory-overview/publi...

Maybe it's not funny reasons but funny countries?

[zosima]

Elons statements were obviously not aimed at Faucis role in vaccine discussions, but in his much more dubious role in gain-of-function research and especially covering up the origins of Covid.

While that is relevant to a scientific society, I think it's worth taking a good hard look on whether its wise to take a side on that, other than maybe denounce gain-of-function research.

[viraptor]

Tweets without context are not "obviously" aimed at specific things. Prosecute/Fauci was both ambiguous and in bad taste.

[tim333]

He later clarified https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1602113254360162304

[cauch]

If it was Musk's intent (but I doubt it was the case, because it does not fit with a lot of other things that Musk did or said that show he is aiming at Faucci role in vaccine discussions), he should have acted to avoid poisoning the debate. There were plenty of "normal" way to do it, and in fact, other members of the Royal Society have done so and have expressed concerns when similar things have happened.

To me, it sounds like "Sure, Musk pooped in his hand and thrown it to the speaker during the conference, but the speaker made a sign mistake in their equation". If someone is saying that this attitude is awful, it does not mean that this person is pretending that the sign mistake did not occur and should not be corrected.

[fabian2k]

I can't keep track of all conspiracy theories Musk has amplified or told himself, but there is another example with Fauci directly linked to vaccines in the blog post.

[didntcheck]

How is criticizing a particular politician [1] "antivaxx"? This intentional conflation of scientific "truth" [2] with the particular policies that a democratic government decides to implement was one of the most blatantly bad faith phenomena of the pandemic. Even if we had an oracle that could have given us perfect future predictions, it would still not be able to answer the ethical questions of which path to choose. That's for the people to decide

And punishing people for disputing the current "truth", and criticizing sacred cows, would go directly against the RS's principles. "Nullius in verba"

[1] Yes, he is one

[2] A notion which itself goes against the principles of scientific inquiry