[Attummm]

I have to disagree with your premise.

The goal of many software engineers is to build software / systems they can be proud of. They love software and the machines it runs on.

Many people here have Arduino projects, 3D printers, home servers, and similar hobbies.

A few weeks ago, I was looking for compression algorithms for a particular use case and came across Brotli[0]. I was surprised to learn it was developed by Google. That realization hit me hard. Google used to be a hub for this kind of innovation. Projects like Brotli aren't built to maximize personal profit; they're driven by passion and a genuine love for software engineering.

It's clear that the industry is shifting from being geeky and nerdy to being more business and management focused.

[0] https://github.com/google/brotli

[tokioyoyo]

> The goal of many software engineers is to build software / systems they can be proud of.

Maybe for people <30. Priorities change very fast, as you age. I’ve met a good chunk of very talented engineers through work and other venues who acknowledged that they stopped caring after some point.

[hirvi74]

I'm in my early 30s and I am so close to hitting this point myself. I entered this field because I found the craft to be fascinating. I learned how beautiful the fields of computer science and programming truly are as well as the mathematics both were built upon.

I fundamentally believe a lot of my issues with our field is partly a skill issue on my part -- if I were talented enough, then I might be able to achieve what I truly desire: to work on projects where people care about quality and care about the problem that is trying to be solved.

However, I feel like my IC career is akin to an assembly-line worker. The people I have worked with do not care about quality nor programming/computer science at all. They just want to get things done as fast as possible while extracting as much money as they can.

So yes, I am about to stop caring. If companies want fast churning, low-quality software, then so be it. I'll just need to get over tying some part of my identity to my work.

[mattgreenrocks]

I hear echoes of myself here. I made it a goal to learn enough about compilers because they were cool, and also to try to escape the thermocline of quality that I saw that was pervasive in industry. The hope was I could build skills in something that isn't easily commoditized. I was somewhat successful: I've worked on some nifty and difficult things, learning a lot of CS along the way.

However, the risk of burnout still exists, but this time, from overwork, because there is essentially an unbounded amount of work that could be done. Additionally, my career growth at my current place is probably stalled out unless I want to do substantially less tech work. This occurs because they have a lot of people who've amassed a lot of specialized expertise, so technical skill is commonplace.

Ultimately, I arrived in a spot in my career that isn't terribly different from most people, despite the amount of work and time put into trying to break away from that. I don't regret it, but there is a sense of wondering whether it was really worth it if my progression, pay, and everything else follows the same age-gated gradient that is prevalent in industry.

[hirvi74]

I kid you not, I am about to start learning more about compilers to myself. I would like to write my own, and I have a few resources to dive into which I hope will help. I am not trying to make the next LLVM or anything, but I hope writing a rather simple compiler would better my current (lack of) understanding of compilers.

> I don't regret it, but there is a sense of wondering whether it was really worth it if my progression, pay, and everything else follows the same age-gated gradient that is prevalent in industry

I am going to assume that you are much further along in your career than I am. Not perhaps in years of experience, but rather more in terms of literal career progression. I'm just a small shop code-monkey, so there isn't really any verticality to my position (unless I jump ship).

However, I do sympathize with your questioning the worth of it all. In some ways, I think I have prematurely questioned many of the same ideas. Such questioning has perhaps aided in my procrastination in bettering my situation.

Maybe what I am looking for is purely fantasy and does not exist in a truly feasible manner? I mean, we have only one life on this planet. I often find myself questioning if this is how I one to spend such time. . .

[mattgreenrocks]

Early 30s was around the age I started self-teaching compilers. Great time to learn, and the urge to improve one's lot is one of the best fires in the belly you can have.

> Maybe what I am looking for is purely fantasy and does not exist in a truly feasible manner?

I felt those same things. Places where quality work is respected do exist, but they may not be in FAANG. You may need to choose between interesting work and money eventually.

Happy to chat more over email if it is helpful.

[MichaelRo]

>> Maybe for people <30. Priorities change very fast, as you age.

This.

I read here on HN some time ago an article stating that teenager-ish people crave to find "meaning" in work due to being what in essence can be described as emotionally retarded (although intellectually normal). This all changes fast as they age and/or have kids or other inevitable live event that manages to pull their head out of their ass.

Basically Mark Twain's "When I was 17, my father was so stoopid" remark.

[polishdude20]

I think it's more to do with the fact that a teenager wants to break free from their family and start working as an adult. They've never worked before in a "career" (most of them). So it's new and exciting.

Then once they reach about 30 they realize family is what mattered the most, work is just a means to an end most of the time and it's really hard to make your "mark" on the world. Why not make your mark in a smaller way that's more guaranteed? By being there for family and friends

[dqh]

45 here, happily married with kids and yet I love writing software more than ever.

[DrillShopper]

> It's clear that the industry is shifting from being geeky and nerdy to being more business and management focused.

I've heard this same complaint for the last 30 years, probably starting with this - Bret Hart helps you debug a null pointer dereference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSmKiws-4NU

[K0HAX]

Just because you've heard it for 30 years doesn't mean it's not still true. Some things move at a glacial pace, and I see it too.

[DrillShopper]

Oh it most certainly is true - it's just something that has been happening for the last 30 years

[rglullis]

> Projects like Brotli aren't built to maximize personal profit;

In the case of Google, they very much are driven by profit. For a small company, reducing your payload size or decompression time by 0.01% may be senseless, but at their scale the benefit will greatly outweigh the costs.

[raphlinus]

In this case, GP has it very much right. Brotli was developed by people, not just faceless Googlers. Jyrki, who led the project, is as passionate an engineer as you're likely to meet. In this case, being able to pursue that passion happened to align well with Google's business interests, as it is indeed the case that improvements to compression have obvious benefits at scale when bandwidth and storage cost real money. But someone still has to push the initiative, and it's not as easy as you might think.

Disclosure: have collaborated with Jyrki and the compression team, including WOFF2 font compression, an early application of Brotli.

[rglullis]

> Brotli was developed by people

And this type of work was only possible because someone provided resources because they were expecting some type of payoff.

Let's stop romanticizing the past. Brotli's first release is from 2015. More than 10 years after Google's IPO. To claim that this type of project used to indicate that companies were more geeky and nerdy is completely asinine.