[Nadya]

Every now and again a site exists that has a massive community, tons of resources, ways to speak with other learners, ways to meet language exchange partners, and are greatly successful. Then all of that gets gutted for what is essentially a worse version of Anki but for the web when the company runs out of funding and has to start turning a profit somehow. This burns the community and the people providing most of the value move elsewhere.

It's happened to italki (now iKnow), Memrise, DuoLingo, and a few sites that were so short-lived I no longer remember what they were called.

My takeaway is that language learning apps are a lot like dating apps. They profit less if people actually learn a language and so can't be too good at their job because they'll bleed users faster than they can gain them - similar to dating apps. It needs to work just well enough that users are tricked into believing it is working but not so well that it actually works for most people.

It seems like the ETA before enshittification begins is about 2~3 years. If you're an early enough adopter you might actually benefit from it but you have to be willing to jump ship and not fall for the engagement/gamification tactics that keep you sticking around after it has stopped providing any value.

I spent way too long 'watering my garden' on Memrise before I looked around and noticed all of the once useful community-providing mnemonics were gone, you couldn't correct bad definitions anymore, it was difficult to actually speak to anyone else in the community (unless you could find them on the forums), and eventually I stopped using it altogether. The community I had signed up for and was a huge part of Memrise's success no longer existed.

[PrismCrystal]

"They profit less if people actually learn a language and so can't be too good at their job because they'll bleed users faster than they can gain them - similar to dating apps."

This might be why some of the best language-learning content I have seen is from national broadcasters like YLE in Finland. There, once a foreigner learns the language from that material, they then become a consumer of the broadcaster’s main content.

[sfblah]

My thought on this is LLMs will replace all this stuff within the next 5 years. Skilled conversation partners work better than these apps do anyway.

[joshdavham]

> a worse version of Anki but for the web

This is actually a remarkably common failure pattern for a lot of language learning apps. Devs see Anki and think "I'm gonna do it better! I'm gonna build Anki, but for a specific language and make it a web app." ... I've lost count how many of these I've seen over the years!

> It seems like the ETA before enshittification begins is about 2~3 years

It's funny, I actually learned the term "enshittification" specifically from friends of mine who were Memrise users. It's honestly a textbook example of the phenomena.

Negativity aside though, I'm actually pretty optimistic about this space despite all that I've seen so far. I think that there's genuinely room to build great language learning software that people will really benefit from. I'm just really pessimistic about most of the people working in the space. Without trying to exagerrate, I'd estimate that probably less than 10% of people working in the language learning industry are actual language learners (at best, they might've learned English as a kid). When you're not actively, seriously learning a language, you become numb to the problems of people who actually care about becoming fluent and just end up building tinder-esque games to addict people with.