[reererer]

I don't get why people get confrontational about not being able to buy a new ICE vehicle. Who cares about that, if you can buy an electric vehicle with similar performance for the same money? It's actually a superior choice, since you can easily install a charger into your home, while you can't turn your home into a gas station easily.

[troupo]

How can I install a charger for my car in my apartment?

With ICE I can drive to the nearest gas station and be done in 5 minutes. With ICE I don't even think about it, I just drive to a station that's on the way to wherever I'm going

[pornel]

This problem is already solved in places with more developed infrastructure:

• Workplaces can have chargers in their parking lots. In places where cars are parked for many hours, slow chargers are sufficient, which makes them relatively cheap and easy to install, so they can be plentiful.

• Malls, supermarkets, gyms, restaurants, etc. can have medium and high power chargers. BEVs need 20-30 minutes to recharge from a high power charger. You can do your weekly shopping while your car recharges.

• Charging posts can be installed along roads with on-street parking. In some places even lamp posts can be modified to have charging sockets.

Modern EVs used for commuting need to be charged only about once a week (BEVs are most efficient in city driving, and the median US commute is 1/10th of good BEVs city range).

With the infrastructure in place, daily use of BEVs is more convenient than ICE, because you never need to go to a gas station. BEVs charge unattended, so you don't even spend the 5 minutes refuelling. You plug your car in and leave to do whatever you wanted to do at the destination you were going to anyway.

[troupo]

None of this solves the issue of charging at scale. How would you solve a small town of, say, 20 000 people charging for 20-30 minutes at a mall? Note: peak for "weekly shopping" is usually just the weekend.

For on-street parking (and any parking general) it's still a lot of investment in infrastructure, as it's not just hanging an extension cord from your outlet.

[pornel]

You're talking in hypotheticals, but Norway has 80%+ market share of BEVs, and quite a few towns with 20,000+ residents. There are already many multi-megawatt charging locations built all around UK and Europe. It's an expensive infrastructure, but when there's demand, it pays for itself. When it's busy, they build more. Growth of the grid is also manageable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU

High-speed charging locations that have very uneven usage with peaks, save costs by using dynamic power sharing (so capacity isn't wasted when a car that has finished charging occupies a dispenser), and have battery storage on site to use a cheaper smaller grid connection, and usually also make extra money from power arbitrage.

> it's not just hanging an extension cord from your outlet.

It almost is! For slow (overnight) AC charging the expensive inverter is in the car. The "charger" on the street is just an extension cord with a network-connected switch and a few temperature sensors for safety. BTW, home "chargers" (EVSE) are overpriced. Many of them are literally a Raspberry Pi and some switches.

[troupo]

> You're talking in hypotheticals,

I live in a Stockholm suburb. Any infrastructure investments are met with "it's too expensive" and/or "current infra will not support charging infra".

> High-speed charging locations that have very uneven usage with peaks, save costs by using dynamic power sharing (so capacity isn't wasted when a car that has finished charging occupies a dispenser), and have battery storage on site to use a cheaper smaller grid connection, and usually also make extra money from power arbitrage.

That wasn't my point, is it? High-speed charging locations will be congested exactly because of uneven usage with peaks.

[ars]

> if you can buy an electric vehicle with similar performance for the same money

It's because you can't.

Electric vehicles cost more. And I personally would never buy an electric vehicle with less than 600 miles range - and even then I would hesitate because I'd have to figure out how to charge at my destination.

Superchargers on the road or whatever don't meet my needs - I'm not willing to wait to charge. I eat in the car, and any rest stop that takes more than 10 minutes is no go for me.

Personally I'd be most interested in a plug in hybrid, with 100 miles (or even less) of battery range. Use battery for city trips and gas for long trips.

> since you can easily install a charger into your home

No you can't. People in apartments can't install them at all, people with only on-street parking can't install them (for example most of New York City is basically without chargers for that reason), and people in houses need some expensive work to run the necessary wires.

Where I live only about 1/4 of the houses on my street (mostly single family) can install chargers - parking is too unpredictable to be able to charge with on-street parking, although some of my neighbors try, and beg other neighbors to not "take their spot".

There's a reason EV sales are dropping.

[pornel]

> and any rest stop that takes more than 10 minutes is no go for me.

You're pretty uncompromising. There are already BEVs that need 18 minutes to recharge. That's close to a 10-minute rest stop + gas station stop.

In real world scenarios good BEVs are currently about 10% slower on long-range road trips than ICE. Not ideal, but also you can relax a bit and not piss in a hurry.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V6ucyFGKWuSQzvI8lMzv...

> People in apartments can't install [chargers]

You don't need a charger at home for a BEV, but you do need to live in a place capable of building the infrastructure:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42203545

> there's a reason EV sales are dropping.

You've been reading some sensationalized headlines. Outside of short-term fluctuations, only the second derivative of EV sales has been dropping — the rate of growth has slowed down, which means the sales are still going up and share of EVs is growing, just not as quickly as it used to.

[grecy]

I’m curious what ICE vehicle you drive now that has a 600 mile range?

[antononcube]

@ars is not saying that; @ars is stating a minimum range threshold to buy an Electric Vehicle (EV).

I completely understand why would someone have such a threshold in USA.

For example, a round trip starting and finishing from/to a place that is a few hundred miles away from a big city. With ICE vehicle fueling during the trip is not a no-brainer. With EV, charging during the trip would take non-trivial planning if EV's range is, say, 300 miles. With 600 miles range it is easy -- just do it beforehand.