[ajeet_dhaliwal]

Imo, as someone who lived in central London for 9 years with no car, the Uk puts ideology first oft n. Obsessed with trains. They are unreliable and expensive. Even the London Underground doesn’t pay for itself with tickets, needing subsidies from tax payers. It may be best to build wider roads and highways and everyone buy a car.

[lxgr]

> Obsessed with trains. They are unreliable and expensive.

As a visitor, I've always experienced them as very reliable, extremely frequent, and very affordable compared to all alternatives.

> Even the London Underground doesn’t pay for itself with tickets, needing subsidies from tax payers.

Compared to roads, which are somehow self-funding? And that's not even considering all the other negative externalities of dense but car-centric cities.

[ajeet_dhaliwal]

Drivers and residents pay additional taxes to maintain roads and pay for their own cars. You can’t get tax payers to maintain your own car.

[lxgr]

Why should I pay taxes (as a resident non-driver) for somebody else's car if they don't pay taxes for the train I much prefer to use?

[ajeet_dhaliwal]

They do. That’s my point. Train riders are subsidized. Car drivers are not

[lxgr]

Do you really believe that all car-related costs to society are completely paid for by car-related taxes and fees?

[bendigedig]

This is a complete fallacy. Car owners might pay for their cars but the annual emissions tax doesn't come close to covering the cost of roads and their infrastructure.

Road transport is subsidised to a far larger extent than rail travel is.

[growse]

> Even the London Underground doesn’t pay for itself with tickets

TfL runs at a profit from its fares.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2023/march/...

[ajoseps]

I don’t live in London but have traveled for work weeks at a time. Coming from a car focused area, I think this sentiment is surprising. I think the London Underground is one of the best things about London and preferring to widen roads and highways sounds extremely backwards for me who lived in a very car focused area. I don’t think it’s appreciated just how great the underground is compared to other transport systems around the world.

[ajeet_dhaliwal]

I’ve lived both, car centric US/Canada and London. At first public transport seems great but over time the realization sets in about how uncomfortable it is (no seat warmers, cleanliness, having your face in people’s armpits) and inconvenient it is (not door to door) and that wouldn’t be so bad but then the unreliability (signal issues) and expense of the tickets and tax subsidies makes it a bad deal. It should exist as an option, I’m glad it does so I can have less traffic on the roads, but it’s overrated. HS2 in the article is this expensive just to build, imagine the maintenance costs for the next century. Whether you use it or not, residents will have to pay for it.

[avianlyric]

> tax subsidies makes it a bad deal.

Unlike roads? How exactly do you think roads are paid for, if not by 100% tax subsidies? TfL doesn’t get any tax subsidies anyway, the Tories got rid of that years ago.

> imagine the maintenance costs for the next century. Whether you use it or not, residents will have to pay for it.

And somehow this doesn’t apply to roads?