[david-gpu]

> They didn't say they traveled too much.

Indeed, that is my point: their actions did not march their narrative. They eventually realized that it wasn't all that great and corrected course.

If being abroad was such a universally positive choice as they claim, they would have remained abroad.

[Melonotromo]

You are mixing up different things and you don't get the point...

1. traveling gives you experiences. You don't need to travel constantly to learn and gain from traveling.

2. Moving away from home (abroad or to a big city) gives you again a lot of new experiences. New insights, new world view.

If i move home today, i'm a complet different person than my friends which never left and while certain things might look the same from the outside, its not.

[david-gpu]

> You are mixing up different things and you don't get the point

Of course I understand the upsides of traveling, and even moving abroad. I have done both myself. Here is the first comment I made on this thread:

>>> There are pros and cons to all possibilities, whether it is staying put, traveling as a tourist, or immigrating in a foreign country.

What most people who repeat these memes of "moving abroad gives you new experiences and perspectives" miss is all the negatives that can come with that. I have tried to inform people of some of the downsides that often come along with the positives, based on my experience and that of people I know.

If people want to stick to overly simplistic ideas about living abroad, they are free to do so. But I would feel I'm doing them a disservice if I did not warn of the downsides -- I wish somebody had told me about them before I left.

[rex_gallorum2]

Again, you are absolutely correct, and for more reasons than most casual readers here will know.

[viraptor]

"move out in their 20s-30s, see the world" does not mean "move abroad permanently". The author also didn't say it wasn't great, just that they prefered home.

[david-gpu]

Look, I speak from my own experience and what I have seen in others: young people being told that moving abroad is such a great experience and all that. The reality is that most of those people who move abroad hoping for a better future do not understand what they are really getting into -- I know I didn't.

In other words, I am trying to kindly offer a more nuanced take on what moving abroad entails. Not everybody is willing to admit that their past decisions had downsides -- we all want to make it look like we are successful and in charge of our lives. Our actions speak louder.

[yen223]

It is much better that the young person tries it and decides it's not for them, than for the young person to never try and to have that doubt gnawing at them for the rest of their life.

[david-gpu]

And why would that doubt be gnawing at them for the rest of their life? Do you think it is possible that all the rah-rah "moving abroad is great" messaging could have something to do with it?

Moving abroad is often a choice. Moving back can be a lot harder once you have a spouse and children.

[yen223]

The doubt comes from not knowing. Not knowing if a different life choice 20 years ago would have made them happier now, because they never tried.

If they gave it a go and it didn't work out, then they know, and they would have plenty of time to course-correct. There wouldn't be any doubt.

[david-gpu]

> and they would have plenty of time to course-correct

Not in the common scenario where they have married and had children abroad.

I do know of some people who left their country for 10+ years and returned. In all cases they had married somebody of the same nationality as theirs and moved while the children were still too young to care.

In other words, the people who can easily return typically do so. Those who don't return often want but can't for one reason or another (usually their new family).

[em-bee]

exactly, it is an experience that will shape their lives. in my opinion everyone should spend at least one year abroad somewhere just for the experience.

i spent 11th grade as an exchange student, so when i got a job abroad years later, i knew what i was getting into.

in between i volunteered for IAESTE, an organization that helps students get internships abroad because i believed that it would be a valuable experience more students should be able to benefit from.

[em-bee]

so it makes sense that you feel like that, but please don't try to justify your experience by claiming that everyone else feels the same.

i left when i was young and it was the greatest experience ever. i would not miss it for the world. but my motivation was not money, it was learning. when i stop learning where i am, then i move on.

eventually i may move back to where i am from, not because it's not working out or because it would have been a mistake, but because i have run out of places to go to and also because it's time to give back.

i am now old enough that i can use my experience to influence the next generation back home to open their mind more towards the world.

[david-gpu]

> so it makes sense that you feel like that, but please don't try to justify your experience by claiming that everyone else feels the same

I beg your pardon? Let me quote the very first comment I made in this thread.

>>>> There are pros and cons to all possibilities, whether it is staying put, traveling as a tourist, or immigrating in a foreign country.

This is in contrast to some of the claims made by others in this thread, such as:

> I always say to younger people that they should try to move out in their 20s-30s, see the world

> in my opinion everyone should spend at least one year abroad somewhere just for the experience.

That said, I am glad things are working out for you. I am just trying to warn people that immigration also has its downsides in spite of popular memes.

Just for curiosity, did you marry abroad? Have children abroad? Did your parents die while you lived there?

[rcxdude]

I think your first post would have been stronger if you hadn't held up the poster's decision to return home as evidence that travelling could be negative, because that didn't follow on from their post or point whatsoever. The rest of your points can stand without that.

(FWIW, I disagree: there is tremendous value in travelling, even if just as a tourist. The main issue is having the resources to do it, which I think is frequently underestimated. Where I personally call home is quite different from where I grew up, but unlike the OP I don't have any particular family ties to a single area, because my family is very spread around, having all settled elsewhere after travelling for work, study, or just for something different. I also have never found someone who regretted moving, even the case of two different people I know who went to the effort of moving the the US and then finding they really don't like it, and moving back within months, don't regret the experience, even if it was expensive)

[david-gpu]

> I think your first post would have been stronger if you hadn't held up the poster's decision to return home as evidence that travelling could be negative, because that didn't follow on from their post or point whatsoever.

This is how the thread went from my perspective:

> [Them] I used to do something and then stopped. My life is fantastic now. That said, I recommend everybody to do what I stopped doing; I have never met anybody who regretted doing it.

> [Me] If it is so great, why did you stop? There are pros and cons to both doing and not doing it

> [Others] But doing that thing is so great! Everybody should do it!

> [Me] Here are some of the common long-term downsides of doing that thing...

> [Others] Don't claim this happens to everybody! Doing that thing is so great! Everybody should do it!

[holoduke]

The tomorrows you is a different one than the todays you. Going abroad for a few years changes your personality in a good way. The mission is complete. You can go home now.

[david-gpu]

> The mission is complete. You can go home now

My wife and children are foreigners; "moving back" would mean uprooting them.

Also, I have lived abroad for so long that my country of origin feels foreign at this point, in what is called reverse culture shock.

You reach a point where you are a foreigner wherever you are.

I'm not saying that it's all been negative; far from it. But I can't universally recommend people to try living abroad after what I've seen both personally and in other immigrants I've known over the years.

[nickd2001]

I think you're giving invaluable info here and doing a public service :) Having lived abroad a few years myself, its exciting, wonderful, broadens the mind etc, for a certain amount of time. But trade-offs emerge. Loneliness is a thing. Its difficult to make "new old friends". Well, at least, takes time! Living abroad contributed to my getting married later (back home) and being an older Dad. Marrying someone from a different country has all the issues you allude to. When I returned home I got reverse culture shock, it was tough, things had changed. Thankfully I kept in touch which some great friends, who are still there now. So grateful to them for not forgetting our friendship. I think these issues BTW, apply within one's own country too. In the UK its traditional for middle-class kids to go to another city for university. They often meet a partner there. Then bingo, one or both settle far from where they grew up. So friends and family are hours away. Now with increased costs , more people are studying nearer home cos they can't afford that. This is often reported as a bad thing but I wonder if being forced to study nearer home therefore meet a partner from nearer, may lead to higher ultimate happiness. When our kids grow up, I 100% wouldn't wanna "clip their wings" or be selfish. But, also kind of hope they don't permanently move far away. But if their true loves come from other countries, well, that's destiny I guess....

[david-gpu]

> I think these issues BTW, apply within one's own country too. [...] Then bingo, one or both settle far from where they grew up. So friends and family are hours away.

YES, absolutely. It happened to my parents and their siblings as well. And it's not something that people get into with a good understanding of the tradeoffs they are making -- it's easy to fool ourselves thinking that videoconferencing and cheap flights will magically eliminate the problem. It doesn't work like that in practice, and I made that mistake myself.

> I wonder if being forced to study nearer home therefore meet a partner from nearer, may lead to higher ultimate happiness. When our kids grow up, I 100% wouldn't wanna "clip their wings" or be selfish. But, also kind of hope they don't permanently move far away

Yeah, that mirrors my sentiment as well. Raising children while away from your extended family is tough. Rather than spending 10 years with extreme childcare responsibilities, I wish we were closer to family so that we could (a) get some hands-on experience with caretaking before raising our own kids, (b) get a couple of hours a week off from taking care of our own kids, and (c) allowing our parents to spend some quality time with their grandchildren without having to travel across continents with small kids to make it happen.

It would have been a more gentle curve spread over more time, and a chance to spend time with our extended family. Now, I've also heard there's a flip side to that, where people get sick of their relatives being too involved in how to raise their kids, etc. It's all a tradeoff.

[c_o_n_v_e_x]

>You reach a point where you are a foreigner wherever you are.

I left the US in 2009 to move to Singapore. After 14 years in SG, I moved to Australia. During my time overseas, my accent has picked up hints of Australian. When I go back to the US, one of the hardest things for me is being asked "where are you from?" I get the same question in Australia. The lack of belonging is tough.