[gsk22]

Except scooters are literally motorcycles? From Wikipedia:

> A scooter (motor scooter) is a motorcycle with an underbone or step-through frame, ....

Scooters are often legally motorcycles as well. For example, I had to get a motorcycle endorsement on my license for a scooter I owned, because the engine displacement was too large for the extremely restrictive "moped" category in my state.

[seanhunter]

Of course as a scooter rider you say its a motorcycle. That wiki entry was probably written by a scooter rider also. ;-)

I actually feel a fellowship with all two-wheel riders but don't let any other bikers know or I'll be shunned.

[andrewflnr]

They're not really considered as such by motorcycle people, for decent reasons too. Scooters generally have rather different ergonomics and controls, notably CVTs rather than manual transmissions for "proper" motorcycles. Overall a pretty different experience to ride. There's not really a good umbrella term, either, though.

[esperent]

I live in Vietnam where the entire population drives small motorbikes or scooters. There's no defining feature except for having a cutaway to place your feet in a scooter. Even the engine placement is less of a clear thing now that many of them are electric.

There's motorbikes with scooter like controls, there's scooters with motorbike like controls. Many small automatic motorbikes feel basically identical to driving a scooter except that your sitting position is very slightly different.

[andrewflnr]

Presumably an American motorcycle purist's brain would simply explode in such an environment. :)

[gsk22]

The "decent reasons" just sounds like snobbery or a reason to feel superior. Cars are cars, whether manual, automatic, CVT, whatever. Why should bikes be any different?

I'm a big fan of two-wheeled transport in all its forms, but wow is there a prevailing toxic attitude among a large group of "true motorcycle" riders. Instead of welcoming people into the fold, it's just tribalism -- you drive a scooter, you're not a true biker; you ride a cruiser, true bikers only drive super sports; you drive an e-bike, but only loud pipes make a true rider!

[andrewflnr]

Agree about the snobbery, but there is a real difference in kind between them that would be nice to have a good name for. Even if, as the other reply pointed out, they exist on a spectrum, the endpoints are pretty distinct.