[aphantastic]

> The same can be considered a simple form of Christianity as well though.

To an uninformed external observer perhaps. But to be Christian means to accept Christ as your Lord. There is no Christianity without Christ. Not even a “simple form” of it.

[qwerty456127]

> accept Christ as your Lord

Okay, why not? Then comes all stuff about what does this mean in practice and theory. And there are so many forms of Christianity arguing. The simplest one of them still is just be mindful and kind, for the sake of the Lord who was and is.

[aphantastic]

You are conflating belief systems and behavioral patterns. Christianity is a belief system populated by folks who follow Christ as Lord. Full stop.

This Kumbaya Collective you describe is a behavioral pattern that many folks take part in. Some of them may happen to be Christian, others may not.

But to observe that some Christians are part of the Kumbaya Collective and then go on to imply that being part of the collective is a “simple form” of Christianity is a categorical error.

Behaviour does not imply Faith.

[deepfriedchokes]

I believe you are committing the no true Scotsman fallacy, by claiming Christianity is a belief in Christ as lord.

I myself was raised in a Christian organization that did not believe Christ was lord, but rather a person sent by god to show us by example, how to be, spiritually, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. They also don’t believe in the holy trinity.

So do consider that you do not speak for all Christian’s and not all Christian’s hold the same beliefs.

[aphantastic]

A better word is Disciple, this was the original usage of the term and a description which your group would seem to match. Of course, all of the original disciples considered Jesus to be their Lord and this terminology was used extensively throughout both the new and old testaments. Regardless, your case is more fitting the other thread than this one. That’s about folks who call themselves Christian despite not being particularly interested in Christ. This is about the claim that somehow being a “good guy” makes one Christian. (Or even is Christianity)

[makeitdouble]

You could define Christianity as believing in Christ, bust more and more people consider themselves somewhat Christian without any of the Bible setup.

> Although many non-practicing Christians say they do not believe in God “as described in the Bible,” they do tend to believe in some other higher power or spiritual force in the universe.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/05/29/10-key-fi...

[jack_pp]

Yeah those people are just confused or simply adhering to their group by calling themselves Christians. Being a Christian and not believing in the bible is oxymoronic

[makeitdouble]

If a critical mass of people call themselves X, whatever previous definition of X gets adapted to that reality. That's how language/society works.

I see your point, but also think we're already past the threshold where the term's ownership has moved away from the Church.

[aphantastic]

That’s a rather Euro-centric view of things (you’ll find the corresponding articles for the american continents are very different), but even still it’s missing the point. The question is whether this “critical mass” you speak of seeks to be a disciple of Christ (the group of people first ever referred to as “Christians”), not whether they have a particular interpretation of “God as depicted in the bible”.

It is, for instance, rather common to believe Genesis 1 is more of an allegory than an explicit recounting of God’s work, but that does not preclude someone from accepting Christ as their Lord and choosing to live as His disciple.

[makeitdouble]

I was specially referring to "Christians" as becoming a generic term for someone following a set of Christian values or belonging to a Christian group, even when they don't seek to be a disciple of Christ in any way shape or form.

I understand it goes against the very defintion of the term, but that's a thing.

I'm trying to steer away from my personal anecdotes, so for instance:

https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-a-Christian.html

> Unfortunately over time, the word “Christian” has lost a great deal of its significance and is often used of someone who is religious or has high moral values but who may or may not be a true follower of Jesus Christ. Many people who do not believe and trust in Jesus Christ consider themselves Christians simply because they go to church or they live in a “Christian” nation.

[aphantastic]

What a ridiculous argument. By this “logic” anyone could claim anything at all is “a simple for of Christianity” and you’d jump in to say “why yes, you see some people don’t view Christianity as meaning much of anything, therefore we can clearly argue it means everything!”

Suit yourself but I find this reasoning cyclically brain-dead.