[jsiepkes]

You think letting Russia harass and invade their former vazal states is without risk? They've occupied eastern Europe until 1989. With the invasion of Crimea in 2014 they've basically only not harassed and not occupied eastern European countries for only 25 years. The only thing which provokes Russia is weakness.

[bingohbangoh]

So we all blow ourselves up and kill everybody? † To own Russia?

†: everybody == a lot of people, just to be clear

[mmooss]

> To own Russia?

That's not the goal.

It's for security: It's less risky now to fight Russia then later, after they've conquered more people and territory, and have political momentum.

It's for security again: If Russia wins, it greatly damages the international order which has prevented wide-scale war for generations. Remember the world before 1945.

It's for people: The lives, freedom, rights, and prosperity of tens of millions of people are at stake.

[blashyrk]

> It's for security: It's less risky now to fight Russia then later, after they've conquered more people and territory, and have political momentum.

This is a fair and logical point.

> It's for security again: If Russia wins, it greatly damages the international order which has prevented wide-scale war for generations. Remember the world before 1945.

That very international order hinges on the US being the sole dominator of the entire world. Sooner or later that sort of international order has to crack.

> The lives, freedom, rights, and prosperity of tens of millions of people are at stake.

Pax Americana is paid for (in blood, natural resources, political sovereignty and the fate of every single future generation) by hundreds of millions of people, though outside of the "western, civilized" world. You still consider it some righteous cause? Sounds kind of selfish.

[mmooss]

>> The lives, freedom, rights, and prosperity of tens of millions of people are at stake.

> Pax Americana is paid for (in blood, natural resources, political sovereignty and the fate of every single future generation) by hundreds of millions of people ...

I didn't say anything about righteousness, but about the human beings directly affected by Russia's invasion.