[jnsaff2]

> Dwarkesh Patel

> How do you sustain yourself while writing full time?

> Gwern

> Patreon and savings. I have a Patreon which does around $900-$1000/month, and then I cover the rest with my savings. I got lucky with having some early Bitcoins and made enough to write for a long time, but not forever. So I try to spend as little as possible to make it last.

Then Dwarkesh just gets stuck on this $1k/month thing when Gwern right out of gate said that savings are being used.

Who knows how much of the savings are being used or how big of a profit he got from BTC.

[sourcepluck]

Thanks for providing that context, which obviously completely changes the story. How that got left out by others is a mystery to me.

[nl]

Meh.

He's living in a place where the floor collapsed and eats (good) ramen. If it's 12k or 20k I'm not sure it makes a meaningful difference to the narrative.

[sourcepluck]

Eating (good) ramen is being used here as evidence that he's doing poorly, or something? I don't get it. Ramen is delicious, and can be very healthy. I hereby politely demand that you explain what exactly you are insinuating about the wonder that is ramen.

A floor collapsing and not bothering to replace it sounds more serious, sure, but that can mean a lot of different things in different circumstances. Imagine, for example, someone who's an expert in DIY but also a devoted procrastinator. That person could leave a roof in the state described for months or years, planning to eventually do it up, and I wouldn't consider anything terribly revelatory about the person's financial or mental status to have occurred.

[keiferski]

In America, ramen typically (or used to, at least) refers to cheap packages of noodles with extremely high amounts of salt. They are not healthy or considered anything other than “cheap” food. Hence the concept of "being ramen profitable."

https://paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html

This is separate from Japanese-style ramen, which you can also easily get at many restaurants.

[tgaj]

I think the misunderstanding is caused by existing of two types of ramen - traditional, good quality is one, and another is instant - bad quality fast food.

[nl]

I mean this politely and aware it's not great etiquette but have you read the interview or listened to the podcast? Because in that context it's pretty obvious this isn't the reason...

The narrative is that he isn't living a life of luxury or even comfort.

He has priorities other than his comfort.

That's the narrative and from that viewpoint it isn't important if he's living on 12k a year or 20k a year because of his BTC investment.

[michaelt]

Living on ramen by choice? Sure, you do you.

But living on ramen + $12k/year + no healthcare + collapsing floor? That's sounding a lot like poverty to me.

[sourcepluck]

I'm aware that it sounds like poverty. I'm just saying it's going to depend on the details. To people who live ordinary western lifestyles, everything outside of that sounds weird.

- ramen =/= cheap pot noodle type things. Ramen restaurants in Japan attest to this. It'll depend on context what that actually means in this case.

- 12k/year =/= no money, numbers like that make no sense outside of context. It depends on how much of it is disposable. You live in a hut with no rent, you grow food, you've no kids, no mortgage, no car, etc, these all matter.

- no healthcare =/= bad health. How many of the growing numbers of people dying from heart-related diseases in their 50s and 60s had healthcare? Didn't do much for them, in the end.

- collapsing floor =/= bad hygiene or something else actually potentially dangerous, as I said above, the nuisance this causes or doesn't cause depends on lots of actual real factors, it's not some absolute thing. It just sounds wild to people not used to it

[michaelt]

> 12k/year =/= no money [...] live in a hut with no rent, you grow food, you've no kids, no mortgage, no car, etc, these all matter.

I agree that 12k goes a long way when you're a subsistence farmer, living alone in a collapsing hut in the middle of nowhere, with no health insurance.

Nonetheless, that's sounding a lot like poverty to me.

[sourcepluck]

> a subsistence farmer, living alone in a collapsing hut in the middle of nowhere, with no health insurance.

"no health insurance" is the only thing in your list there that isn't hyperbole or a twisting of what was said. But anyway, again, no-one is arguing about whether 12,000/year "officially" is or is not below the poverty line, except you, with yourself.

Did you read the part about him having savings in bitcoin that wouldn't sustain him forever, but nonetheless for many, many years? If the bitcoin was worth 500,000, for example, would you then say "oh, that's a totally acceptable way to live now!", or would you still be belittling their life choices, insinuating there was something bad or wrong with it?

[nl]

He literally says:

> Yeah, it is mostly just money stopping me at this point. I probably should bite the bullet and move anyway. But I'm a miser at heart and I hate thinking of how many months of writing runway I'd have to give up for each month in San Francisco.

> If someone wanted to give me, I don’t know, $50–100K/year to move to SF and continue writing full-time like I do now, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

It sounds a little like you are arguing without any reference to the actual evidence here.