[willio58]

I know this is so common to say that it's a joke at this point but...

I'd just quit. If people in my company are making sweeping decisions that I disagree with (how much they are based in reality aside), I would just leave. If the company isn't aligning with you on something you feel passionately about, just leave. There are oodles of companies out there that would align with you on this.

[pluc]

I quit over principles about 9 months and 800 job applications ago. I'd advise not to do it unless you're sitting on a pile of cash.

[ffsm8]

When such a situation occurs you're meant to start searching for a new job, not turn in your resignation immediately.

[pluc]

I'd say it depends on the situation and how much you value your principles but to each its own.

[camgunz]

I'm genuinely super curious because I hear this a lot, but the deepest I ever got was... 5 apps? Do you have some kind of like generic cover letter/resume you fire off 3 times a day? What is your process?

[pluc]

The first ~3 months I wrote specific cover letters and modified my resume according to what I was applying. Then I gave up and just blindly applied to everything without bothering to read anything other than the title and specific qualifications using a generic (but detailed and well-structured) resume.

[camgunz]

Thanks for your response--that's incredible stamina to do that for 3 months.

[em-bee]

from your response it is not clear whether you are still searching or if you found a job. i can understand getting tired, i feel the same, but i worry that taking less effort reduces my chances.

what are your thoughts on that?

(what is a well structured resume in your opinion? did you get any feedback if it is well perceived? i'd like to think that mine is detailed and well-structured too, but i don't feel certain that it is good)

[pluc]

I sold my house and fucked off to Europe. Hopefully will outlast whatever thing is happening, but I'm not that hopeful, so I'm searching for new passions. I still look for work once in a while and blindly apply to what a carefully crafted search query yields (searching job application sites (not job boards!) + position and/or skills). I decided after 3 months to go for quantity over quality. It hasn't been much more successful, but at least I don't get frustrated spending 2h researching a company, crafting a cover letter and creating a resume to get a refusal the next day.

Any time you'll ask for feedback someone will tell you to do things differently and it will never end. I've been hiring tech folks for 15 years, with 25 years total experience, so I know what I want to see when I look to fill a role, that's how I build my resume. I want it to show at a glance where I've worked and what I did there, no more no less.

If efforts are made and you see a difference, then don't stop. If you see no difference (eg uptick in responses or interviews), as is my case, I've got nothing to say that will help you. Sell your house and fuck off to Europe maybe.

[em-bee]

I've been hiring tech folks for 15 years, with 25 years total experience, so I know what I want to see when I look to fill a role, that's how I build my resume

maybe you could share some insights here?

my CV starts with a few paragraphs highlighting what i think are my biggest accomplishments and showing off how broad my experience is. followed by a list of tools and languages i have worked with, then a list of projects and the employment history. for jobs where it seems relevant i also have a list of talks and workshops i have given. the whole thing is quite long though. 5 pages for the short version and 8 pages for the long one.

searching job application sites (not job boards!)

what's the difference here? do you mean the career/job lists on company websites?

[cruffle_duffle]

In this market you m have to be Linus Torvaldes to put in only 5 apps no matter how well connected and networked are. And even then good luck.

[sitzkrieg]

when was the last time you did this? its absolutely awful still

[camgunz]

Earlier this year. I did have pretty bad luck, then did some contracting, then converted that into an FTE role.

[willio58]

That's a great point. Either have a ton of money saved up or just start applying to jobs elsewhere immediately. The latter is what I assume most would want to shoot for.

[hayertjez]

Are you over reacting or really 800 job applications? An accomplishment for putting so many applications out!

[cweagans]

It's not a stretch. The job market is terrible and has been for some time. I was 400-500 applications into my job hunt when I *finally* found something and that was at the end of 2022. It has gotten worse since then.

[cruffle_duffle]

I see you haven't been on the job market recently. 800 is nothing.

[mschild]

Or at least have another job lined up before handing in your resignation.

[subhro]

I hope you understand how privileged you are to be able to say that and hopefully do what you say.

[Buttons840]

Being in a position to point out the privilege of another is itself quite a privilege.

There is rarely a suggestion given in modern society that doesn't assume a good amount of privilege, and pointing this out every time isn't helpful.

I welcome suggestions that can help those who cannot simply quit, but you didn't give such a suggestion, which is why I say it wasn't helpful.

Accusing people of privilege is a dead end. A person who has been accused of privilege is left without direction. It is better to say "what about these other people" than to say "you're privileged", because it directs attention to the other people. It avoids accusation and focuses attention on those in need.

[FredPret]

This is so tiresome.

If you’re reading this you’re privileged.

Somewhere on this planet is a single individual human who is the very unluckiest and most unfortunate. Everyone else is privileged. Even that guy is lucky to be alive now and not 1000 years ago.

None of this makes OP wrong.

[digging]

Nothing you just posted is relevant to the conversation.

Most HN readers can't quit their job on a whim without putting their household in jeopardy. That's the sentiment you're responding to.

[FredPret]

Be that as it may, it's a real solution for many.

Calling out a solution as "privileged" adds nothing to this site.

You have a job at all? You have the brain and attention span to read this far? You can use computers to solve problems? That's a privilege. And yet we don't point that out every time a programming or career or product question is asked and answered.

Perhaps OP could have added something a bit gentler like "quit your job - if you can". But it's fundamentally a sound plan for many of us, and crucially, also even for many of us who aren't aware how much market power they really have.

[Buttons840]

Is it okay to post suggestions that only apply to a small portion (say, 5%) of HN readers and trust people to determine for themselves whether or not the advice is applicable?

[wikiperson]

Yet, it doesn't mean that quitting is always going to be the solution. There are specific conditions that need to be met (sufficient savings, decent possibilities to get a similar job, and so on) in order for quitting to not hurt you financially and professionally. Yes, everyone can be seen as "privileged" if we compare our lives to how it was back then, but that doesn't dismiss the issue.

[FredPret]

It doesn't dismiss the issue because it doesn't perfectly solve the problem for all people everywhere.

But that fact doesn't mean it's a real solution many can and should try (or threaten to try).

[coliveira]

You say as if it was so easy to get a new job in 2024... Have you tried to check how the job market is right now?

[Tainnor]

"Decisions that I disagree with" are one thing, treating people like children and telling them how to work is quite ridiculous. Yes, not everyone can afford to leave, but I definitely would at that point.