[recursive]

That's just like... your opinion man.

People have been saying this about Windows since Vista or earlier. If you really want to communicate with someone and not just score points for your team, you should say what the malware is, and why you're calling it that.

[yjftsjthsd-h]

Since at least XP, in my memory, and yes it is pretty easy to argue that every version has gotten worse.

Some highlights:

"Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27337382

"Why can an ad break the Windows 11 desktop and taskbar?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332

"Microsoft accidentally reveals that it is testing ads in Windows Explorer" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30711277

EDIT: And to finish the throughline back to XP, every version of Windows since then has included more "telemetry", which a perfectly reasonable person could describe as "spyware".

[Symbiote]

The standard Windows first-run setup prompts with dark patterns to show advertising and send private data like keystrokes and microphone audio to Microsoft. It very strongly pushes the user to use a Microsoft account to sign in to their own computer.

(This is my experience in the EU, so presumably the relatively polite version.)

It seems reasonable to call this malware. It's what software like browser toolbars did 20 years ago, and they were widely criticised for it.

[Out_of_Characte]

I dont consider that an opinion anymore.

You have to look at microsoft and windows from the perspective of an actual software product. Who in their right mind would find it acceptable if their program/operating system decided to automatically download candy crush. Let that sink in. Either you accept that candy crush itself is malware preying on an innocent microsoft or there is a significant and hostile attempt by microsoft to push unwanted and distracting software onto consumers. Which is practically the definition of malware. You could add the countless other examples of advertisement and other unwanted behaviour that is not fit for an operating system and you'll find they fit the description of malware. If you happen to disagree then I would like to ask you what fits the description of the candy crush saga on windows really is.

[vel0city]

> Who in their right mind would find it acceptable if their program/operating system decided to automatically download candy crush

Your argument wasn't really based in reality. Windows didn't have Candy Crush actually installed; it was a shortcut to get it from the store.

And even then, we could rephrase that. Change "candy crush" to "mahjong titans" or "3D pinball" or "minesweeper" or "hover" or "hearts" or "solitaire" or "reversi", all games that were actually installed on a fresh install of Windows instead of just being a link to install it separately. Why aren't you then complaining about Reversi or Hover? Where was the outrage in the 1980s over this? Why is it such a big deal that its "candy crush"?

Microsoft has been bundling in games to its operating systems since 1985. I don't get why people suddenly made a big deal about it when it became a shortcut to Candy Crush.

[Out_of_Characte]

When I used windows, candy crush was not just a shortcut. It showed up as an installed program on my machine. Windows updates put it there after the ISO install. I did not check if the full game was there This is pure cope. Candy crush and adverts in windows are the nails that stick out.

There was another huge legal issue when microsoft decided to push their own web browser over crome and firefox. The EU decided to rule against microsoft for doing so despite edge and windows both being from the same company. Why? Because windows is an operating system.

>Your argument wasn't really based in reality.

>Why aren't you then complaining about Reversi or Hover?

You're out of your mind. Are you suggesting that my absence of disagreement with every unknown transgression proves that I'm hypocritical? Just because not every infraction gets punished does not mean that no infraction should get punished to remain 'fair'

>Where was the outrage in the 1980s

My age lacked positive digits back then. I guess that's when any criticism failed to achieve merit in your eyes.

[vel0city]

> It showed up as an installed program on my machine.

Sure, but did you check the "installed size" of the app? 1KB? Really think that game shipped as 1KB? You didn't even bother understanding what happened before you got enraged about it. Nice.

> my absence of disagreement with every unknown transgression proves that I'm hypocritical?

No, just that every version of Windows included games but somehow everyone makes a big deal over Candy Crush as if including a game in Windows is somehow a new thing.

> My age lacked positive digits back then.

Ok then, so you were outraged about Hearts? Space Cadet Pinball? Internet Checkers, pushing MSN accounts on people? Who in their right mind would find it acceptable if their program/operating system decided to automatically download Purble Place. Or were you negative digits old when Windows Vista and 7 shipped?

> Are you suggesting that my absence of disagreement with every unknown transgression proves that I'm hypocritical?

I'm arguing your extreme selection of what to be upset about makes you seem either pretty ignorant or hypocritical.

> hostile attempt by microsoft to push unwanted and distracting software onto consumers.

One could argue Solitare was one of the most distracting pieces of software in the 90s. Imagine how many hours people spent playing that and Hearts. People didn't choose to install that, it was "pushed" upon them. Acting like its a new thing with Candy Crush is once again ignoring history.

Replace every instance in your argument of "candy crush" with "solitare" and see what that sounds like. "Who in their right mind would find it acceptable if their program/operating system decided to automatically download solitare. Let that sink in. Either you accept that solitare itself is malware preying on an innocent microsoft or there is a significant and hostile attempt by microsoft to push unwanted and distracting software onto consumers." Someone so angry that Microsoft bothered bundling in a card game in their OS, oh my! A distraction application came bundled into an operating system, dear lord what ever is this world coming to.

[Out_of_Characte]

>Who in their right mind would find it acceptable if their program/operating system decided to automatically download Purble Place.

>People didn't choose to install that, it was "pushed" upon them

So we're on the same page? Or are you being sarcastic? I'm not sure what your stance is at this point.

[vel0city]

My point is this is how Windows has always been, it's not something getting worse over time. Acting like suddenly now they're including Candy Crush is the line that makes it into malware is laughable to me and overly hyperbolic. If it's malware today because it had a shortcut to Candy Crush it was malware in the 1980s with Reversi. Essentially Windows has always been malware if having a pack-in game distractionware is the standard.

Did you also find Windows XP to be malware? Windows 95? Windows 7?

Is Chrome malware because it's got a hidden game Easter egg in it as well?

Is some Linux distro that defaults to having cowsay malware?

[AlexeyBelov]

Different type of game.

[vel0city]

All of those games are different kinds of games. Hover isn't exactly the same game as Reversi. So, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Lots of these pack-in games were developed by outside studios and were sometimes published by different companies as well, so that it's a King game instead of something developed in-house by Microsoft also doesn't seem different from the past. Microsoft had already included games with social networks and online aspects such as Internet Hearts and Internet Backgammon. Those bundled Internet suite of games even pushed people to make an MSN account.

[gjsman-1000]

> If you happen to disagree then I would like to ask you what fits the description of the candy crush saga on windows really is.

It's whatever Dell and HP preloading McAfee is; which they've been doing in one way or another for decades.

[yellowapple]

And for which they've also been widely criticized for the exact same reasons.

[aniviacat]

Windows 11 literally contains ads

[xnyan]

I'm having to deal with increasingly pushy ads from Apple. Banner notifications with ads for their tv, news, game and music services, as well as fake alerts in the settings app that say some bullshit like "Setup required - signup for some icloud storage now!" I work at an outfit that uses RHEL, they absolutely inject ads for their services whenever you use a shell. Microsoft is the most distasteful, but it's matter of degrees for most OS vendors.

[vel0city]

Windows XP contained ads. It had a demo for a game suite bundled in it. It had so many references to Microsoft Passport. Its defaults were set to msn's website filled with ads. It was set up to easily get connected to certain ISPs out of the box. Windows Messenger often had ads and was bundled in it. Security Center pushed antivirus subscriptions. Windows Media Player had ads in it from time to time.

[recursive]

Not saying it doesn't, but I've been using it daily for years, and at least haven't noticed them.

[Symbiote]

You probably deactivated them, are using a corporate PC whose owner deactivated them, or live in a country Microsoft doesn't advertise in.

The existence of the adverts is very widely reported in the technical press.

[yellowapple]

> People have been saying this about Windows since Vista or earlier.

And they've been 100% correct in doing so since Vista or earlier.

[recursive]

Then a loss of support for 7 and 8 doesn't really mean much.

[yellowapple]

Less baked-in malware is arguably better than more baked-in malware.

But sure, a loss of support for 7 and 8 indeed doesn't mean much for those of us who've already migrated away from Windows.

[alephxyz]

Okay here are the first few that come to mind:

- displaying a full screen dialog on login asking me to enable OneDrive with options being: yes/remind me in 3 days/remind me in a week;

- ads in start menu;

- using MS Edge + bing for searches from the start menu, disregarding the default browser;

- ditto but for Outlook links (at least this one can be disabled)!

- different pop up/dialogs that prompt you to switch to Edge/Edge+copilot every few weeks

[raxxorraxor]

Nah, Win 11 introduced secure boot enforcement and forces you to use a Microsoft account. That is a new magnitude of enshitification. Even in corporate environments people get nervous.

And yes, some aspects were better in older windows versions. MS itself decided they won't remove the control panel as advertised, because the settings app is just shitty or dysfunctional.

This is beyond the level of shittyness that was Vista or Windows 8.