[shostack]

Your attempt to sow a divide among people by labeling them the derogatory "elites" in line with GOP talking points isn't helpful here.

If you want to ground this conversation in facts, here's a few for you to chew on:

1. Someone earning $500k/year TC still has far more in common with someone earning $80k or even $50k when you compare them against people with hundreds of millions or billions of dollars who control capital.

2. Someone earning $500k in a vhcol area like the Bay Area still likely cannot afford what historically was considered a "nice" home in a "nice" neighborhood without years of saving up when those homes cost $3M+.

3. Someone earning that may not necessarily be wealthy and be largely dependent on their ability to continue receiving a paycheck compared to those with true wealth who can take loans against like billionaires.

The reality is, someone earning that much is likely financially comfortable where a major disaster likely won't bankrupt them, and can likely afford reasonable housing for a family, and retire one day. That is more than most of America for sure right now and that sucks, but it absolutely does not make them "elite" and it speaks volumes of the efficacy of the GOP propaganda machine that you and so many others think that.

That used to simply be "the American dream."

[fragmede]

20% down on a 3 million dollar home is $600k. If they can't save that much in 5 years making $500k/yr, dare I say they're really not trying hard enough? say you only see half of that 500k after taxes (which is low since that 500k isn't cash comp and you wait for long term capital gains to kick in). $250k/yr - saving $120k, still gives you $130k post-tax, or $10,800/month to rent, pay for groceries, utilities, fuel, retirement, entertainment, everything else.

People are living on half that, if not less. $3,000/month? $2,000? Saying that $500k doesn't go very far just because they have to have the $3,000,000+ house isn't likely to garner much sympathy.

Oh no, it's going to take a couple of years to save up for the down payment on a $3 million house. How about not making enough to be able to save for a down payment on any house in the prime parts of the Bay Area!

$500k/yr is enough to buy a lot of luxuries that are denied to those making $50k/yr, and it's stupid to try and deny it.

But that's simple jealousy. Some software person at Google writing ad software isn't the one that moved manufacturing jobs out of America, nor do they have the power to bring them back. They can't vote on a tarrifs or fund a stimulus in Congress to help American workers. They don't set public policy at all. The best they can do at stealing from the government is to cheat a bit on their taxes, or be a NIMBY after they've bought that house.

[cipheredStones]

I agree with you in general, but this part is off:

> which is low since that 500k isn't cash comp and you wait for long term capital gains to kick in

Stock that a company gives you as compensation is treated as ordinary income at the time it vests, based on the value when it vests. If your total comp is $250k salary + $1M in stock over four years, and the stock value stays flat, your taxes are the same as if you got $500k in salary each year (a bit worse, actually, because of the first year vesting all at once making your income $250k and then $750k); if it doubles the day after your grant and stays flat after that, your taxes are the same as if you got $750k in salary each year. Long-term capital gains only apply to increases in stock value after it vests - not any different than if you sold your company stock immediately and bought another stock.

[fragmede]

Good point! You're totally right, assuming they're RSUs, which they probably are.

There are more exotic situations where they aren't, and also there are ESPPs (employee stock purchase program) which are also different though that's not a grant, but I don't want to rathole on stock option grant stuff here.

[500ktc]

With all due respect, you're disconnected from reality.

- Earning 500k TC for 15 years equals financial independence and retiring at age 45 if you're careful (even if you lived in a HCOL)

- Earning 50k means working until you're 65 with a meanger 401k and spend the rest of your life depending on social security

Just because high earners aren't billionaires doesn't mean they can relate in any way to someone earning 50k or even 80k, that is absurd.

[j7ake]

If they graduated from Ivy or Stanford or Berkeley, they are elite even if they are unemployed after graduating.