[baq]

management is very creative, they just sometimes don't realize that agile is not a management process, it's an engineering process. it's an easy mistake to make because they want to measure engineering output somehow and introduce measurements which cause decoherence of the engineering process state if I may use a quantum analogy instead of a car one.

IOW they're trying to do their jobs (manage employees) but engineering is a high trust profession and some managers just don't have the trust (not to say that all engineers have the integrity...)

[hinkley]

That’s because Scrum is so easy to turn into a management process. It makes more sense to them than all the other forms of Agile combined. So like children reaching for candy instead of vegetables, or who will only eat carrots as a vegetable, you have to work to make them reach for something else, otherwise they will be unhealthy.

[robertlagrant]

> agile is not a management process, it's an engineering process

That's interesting - I've always thought of it slightly more broadly as a team-running process. You don't have to be doing engineering to do it; you might be building a website in Wix. You just need to iterate and inspect. What do you think?

[mcmcmc]

Maybe it would be more accurate to say agile is a way of doing things, not a way of managing people.

[baq]

yeah I completely agree, well put; I also like the sibling's 'process of making/doing things'.

[jdsalaro]

> management is very creative

What you described, I wouldn't accept generally under my definition of creativity.

In order for creativity to be such it must ultimately deliver value; managers "doing their job" in ways which hinder instead of supporting engineers is not creative, it's disruptive.