[revx]

One of my radicalizing events was in 2016, when I was a delegate for Bernie at the Colorado caucus. (I can't recall exactly what level, but there were probably 200 people in the room.

The Hillary folks controlled the stage and completely ignored the Bernie crowd's calls of "point of order!", throwing out the rules to rush through their agenda despite the wishes of (more than?) half the crowd.

I know Bernie has a lot of detractors, and the calls of "socialist!" scare a lot of people off. But still, the process should have happened. I still think he had a real shot of winning 2016, because people were ready to overturn the system and the Dems establishment didn't see it. So instead many people who wanted that revolution turned to the other person who promised to burn it all down. Maybe I'm libbing out, but _I want to believe_.

I got incredibly ill for days after that experience, likely from the fact that there were a lot of folks yelling and sharing germs in a closed room, but also from the sheer stress of seeing the establishment flagrantly violate Robert's Rules when it served them, and state it as law when that served them instead.

I'm still mad. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[rozap]

Oh, the democrats saw this the whole time, but I think the establishment democrats would rather have an R in the white house over Bernie because when it comes to policy and maintaining existing power structures, they're closer to a Republican than they are to Bernie.

I think he would have won too, because he would have gotten the poor, working class vote that Hillary and Kamala failed to get. He would have faced a hell of a battle getting any of his policies implemented. But damn, I wish we lived in that timeline. He's the only "democrat" candidate that people have actually been excited about since 2008 Obama.

[marssaxman]

Someone remarked recently that the Democratic Party's fatal flaw is that it is not really a democratic organization, and this author's experience seems to support that idea.

[InitialLastName]

One can go further:

- The Democratic party is the one that wants to reduce the use of electoral politics (i.e. democracy) for policymaking

- The Republican party is the one that wants to reduce the scope of the commonly-held institutions that execute policy (i.e. the republic)

[AnimalMuppet]

> people were ready to overturn the system and the Dems establishment didn't see it.

The Democratic establishment didn't want it. I suspect they saw it.

[JackFr]

Why shouldn’t establishment Democrats revile Bernie? He has been independent or third party his entire career, except during two brief stints where he joins the Democratic Party to use their national apparatus to run for president, much to the frustration of career Democrats.

[munk-a]

Bernie, while being Vermont's Senator, has secured the democratic party primary every time he's run. He has pushed hard for policies that align with democratic voters and he's been extremely consistent. He's also fundraised for the DSCC and other democratic aligned organizations.

If you're familiar with his political stances it's bizarre to not classify him (in our two party system) as a democrat.

[revx]

Oh, I agree! I was just frustrated that they were willing to break the rules to defeat Bernie (but then when they lose to the Republicans, it's just too bad and we must follow the rules).

I dunno. I'm not arguing that Dems should break rules/laws/whatever. I'm just venting about the hypocrisy that I think cost them the 2016 and 2024 elections.

[AnimalMuppet]

When they lose to Republicans, the "rules" are not Robert's Rules of Order or the bylaws of the Democratic Party. Instead, the rules are the federal election laws. Not following the rules is a bit less of an option.

[lapcat]

The irony is that Sanders has been super-loyal to the establishment Democrats. He endorsed and campaigned for Clinton. He endorsed and campaigned for Biden. He publicly defended Biden when people wanted to replace him on the ticket. And then when Biden was replaced, Sanders endorsed and campaigned for Harris. And he hasn't used to power as a Senator to block legislation, like Manchin and Sinema. He's been a reliable vote.

Despite all of the talk of a "political revolution", Sanders is anything but a revolutionary. He's practically an establishment Democrat himself.

The same goes for AOC, by the way. She never "brought the ruckus" against the Democrats. She's 100% establishment now.

[gremlinsinc]

Maybe because 45% of this country is independent voters. I'll continue writing in Bernie rather than voting for an establishment and nobody owns my vote. I'd rather see the country go to hell under R until blue votes for a progressive leader. If you can't bring true universal single payer healthcare, you're not someone I'll ever vote for. I want principles, not special interests.

[bobbylarrybobby]

Isn't Bernie overall quite good for the party? Isn't having a president of your party in office good for your party? Seems like cutting off their nose to spite their face for the Democratic Party to shun him.

[KennyBlanken]

What? From the very beginning he negotiated with the Democratic party to run under the D banner and support major platforms of the party - but he's not beholden to the Whip. His job was to represent the people who elected him, and he's very consistently done so, and probably worked 'across the aisle' to get things done moreso than anyone else in congress in decades.

[Spivak]

> I still think he had a real shot of winning 2016, because people were ready to overturn the system and the Dems establishment didn't see it.

I wouldn't assume that it's that they didn't see it but that they're the system being overturned. The GOP did get turned over and it's unrecognizable compared to 2012, I can't even imagine being a long-time Republican senator trying to do right by people and suddenly have to gargle Trump's sweaty balls and betray a lot of what you believe in or be out of a job. I think it's a natural reaction to being cornered. Moderate Republicans are homeless right now boxed out of their own party and staring down their dwindling political and social capital. It's gotta hurt.

Don't get me wrong I would love to Feel the Bern, I don't agree with a whole lot of his pie-in-the-sky ideals but when he talks about actual concrete issues and policy changes to me it's clear he gets it.

[stufffer]

Here is a thought experiment: what if Bernie had won in 2016 and remade the Democratic party in his image the way Trump eventually would?

Would the media and political power centers align with the Republican party?

[krapp]

Media, business and "power centers" of any kind align to wherever the power is, and take whatever form is necessary to tap into that power. The only ones actually wedded to ideology are the rubes who show up to the polls.