[johngladtj]

Would you call all options and futures subsidies? Are airlines subsidizing oil companies when they purchase oil futures in order to hedge their oil costs?

There is no indication that these commitments were underpriced by the government, so to call them subsidies is at best baseless misinformation.

[ceejayoz]

> Are airlines subsidizing oil companies when they purchase oil futures in order to hedge their oil costs?

No; both parties in the deal have successfully accomplished their respective roles repeatedly before. The airline isn't doing anything new; the oil company isn't doing anything new.

(And they both absolutely get subsidized!)

> There is no indication that these commitments were underpriced by the government...

They got paid for a launch of an untested platform and a student-built payload, regardless of success, in hopes it would result in a good tested platform. What else do you call it?

[signatoremo]

No question that NASA was pivotal to SpaceX’s success, especially COTS program. However that wasn’t subsides. They only got paid when they could deliver. Had they fail to launch Falcon 9 or cargo Dragon they would have gotten no dimes from NASA.

[ceejayoz]

> Had they fail to launch Falcon 9 or cargo Dragon they would have gotten no dimes from NASA.

That's false.

https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/189228main_s... - start at page 34.

The first demonstration mission is paid milestone #13. If I'm adding it up correctly, about $200M paid out prior to that first demonstration flight.