[cynicalpeace]

> the Democrats are first and foremost the party of the educated, metropolitan and utterly disinterested in matters of material conditions.

This is absolutely true. Though most people on the Left are terrified to face this fact.

> Whereas the Republicans are the party of people who are bitter towards the first group.

This was true in 2016, probably 2020. But definitely not this election. Just to use myself as an example: I'm an Obama ('12), Clinton ('16), Biden ('20), Trump voter ('24).

I'm not motivated by animosity against Democrats because I was voting for them. Trump's message now is way more positive. It's a message of peace with Russia, making America healthy again, getting competent people in government (Musk), etc.

And that's actually also what a lot of the most influential Trump supporters (Musk, Rogan, RFK, Dana White, Nelk boys, Theo Von, etc) have been espousing too, pretty much all of whom used to be Democrats.

[kelnos]

> Trump's message now is way more positive.

I feel like I've been listening to a very different Trump than you have. Most of what he says involves demonizing various groups of people, becoming a dictator, or putting his political opponents in jail. (And no, I haven't just been listening to sound bites or the most inflammatory short clips.)

> It's a message of peace with Russia

At the expense of Ukraine's sovereignty, appeasing a dictator and emboldening him to take other territory in Eastern Europe. (I bet China is happy with this, too.)

Is peace with Russia going to look like what happened with Afghanistan? The withdrawal plan and timeline was Trump's, not Biden's.

> making America healthy again

Every concrete proposal of his (not that he has many) that I've heard will bring us back on the inflation train, and increase the deficit. And on top of that he'll even further paralyze the federal government. Which is of course the conservative agenda in a nutshell: dismantle the federal government and let the states decide their fates, except where they want to impose their "values" on blue states.

> getting competent people in government (Musk), etc.

I see Musk as a deranged man who has succeeded through luck, timing, and rhetoric, rather than skill or talent. He can't even focus properly on the important things anymore (Tesla, SpaceX), and would prefer to spend his time making sure no one says mean things about him on Twitter. If he were a family member I'd be worried about his mental health. I don't say that to be flippant or cruel; I'm dead serious.

[kelnos]

> Trump's message now is way more positive.

I feel like I've been listening to a very different Trump than you have. Most of what he says involves demonizing various groups of people, cozying up to dictators, or putting his political opponents in jail. His rallies are about stoking outrage and fear.

> It's a message of peace with Russia

At the expense of Ukraine's sovereignty.

Is peace with Russia going to look like what happened with Afghanistan? The withdrawal plan and timeline was Trump's, not Biden's.

> making America healthy again

Every concrete proposal of his (not that he has many) that I've heard will bring us back on the inflation train, increase the deficit, reverse our declining reliance on fossil fuels, and increase income inequality even further. And on top of that he'll even further paralyze the federal government. Which is of course the conservative agenda in a nutshell: dismantle the federal government and let the states decide their fates, except where they want to impose their "values" on blue states.

> getting competent people in government (Musk), etc.

If you think Musk is competent and should be anywhere near government, our fundamentals are so different that there's probably no point in discussing it further.

[newfriend]

> I feel like I've been listening to a very different Trump than you have. Most of what he says involves demonizing various groups of people, cozying up to dictators, or putting his political opponents in jail. His rallies are about stoking outrage and fear.

It sounds more like you've been listening to what the news tells you Trump is.

"cozying up to dictators" is exactly the language used by MSNBC, CNN, CBS, et al. Putting his political opponents in jail is what his opposition tried.

The withdrawal plan is different from the execution, especially when only the high-level is followed. That is on Biden.

> Every concrete proposal of his (not that he has many) that I've heard will bring us back on the inflation train, increase the deficit, reverse our declining reliance on fossil fuels, and increase income inequality even further. And on top of that he'll even further paralyze the federal government. Which is of course the conservative agenda in a nutshell: dismantle the federal government and let the states decide their fates, except where they want to impose their "values" on blue states.

Again, this just sounds like what certain media tells you. I have never heard Trump say his goal is to "paralyze the federal government".

[kelnos]

> It sounds more like you've been listening to what the news tells you Trump is.

I've been listening to the literal words that Trump says, by watching videos of his rallies.

Regardless, I'm not really interested in engaging with someone who's going to argue that "I'm listening wrong" instead of presenting a coherent argument.