[doublerabbit]

The EU was holding world peace. This destabilisation is in part caused by America.

Iraq, war on oil. Isreal funded by US arms

Russia owns Trump and Russia wants the EU dead.

By no means should the EU get cosy with the US.

Why shouldn't the US get cosy with the EU?

[gg82]

Why would Russia want the EU dead. They were selling 10's of billions of dollars of oil and gas to it each year. Russia is however a bit paranoid about its own security, having being invaded numerous times over the centuries and wants to keep control of its own economic destiny.

Provide a way where security of both Europe and Russia can be provided for and peace will quickly follow.

[account42]

> Russia is however a bit paranoid about its own security, having being invaded numerous times over the centuries and wants to keep control of its own economic destiny.

In soviet Russua, Russia is the one constantly being invaded.

[athrowaway3z]

> Provide a way where security of both Europe and Russia can be provided for and peace will quickly follow.

So if i'm following you correctly, Russia's nuclear arsenal wasn't enough to provide security. Only thing we haven't tried for more security is to have every European nation be in control of their own nuclear arsenal?

Its a bold claim, but by golly you've snorted enough foreign-sourced talking points that you might actually be right!

[microtonal]

Russia is however a bit paranoid about its own security,

Every rational actor (including Putin) knows that not a single NATO country is interested in invading Russia. He might have been worried about a democratic uprising in his country like Ukraine in 2014, but given how much an autocracy Russia has become, that's pretty unlikely now.

Provide a way where security of both Europe and Russia can be provided for and peace will quickly follow.

It's very clear that Putin wants to annex countries that he considers Russia's property (mostly former Soviet states). He has wars in Ukraine, Chechnya, and Georgia to back it.

Putin's word in a peace treaty will be worth as much as him saying that he wouldn't invade Ukraine up till the invasion. Nada. The only thing that will work is military deterrence.

[hackinthebochs]

>It's very clear that Putin wants to annex countries that he considers Russia's property

Nothing more than fantasy that justifies the warhawk stance among liberals. It is completely disconnected from reality. What Russia wants is safety from NATO. NATO in Ukraine would have been a strategic noose from which Russia would never escape. Ukrainian neutrality lead to peace. Ukraine with NATO aspirations lead to this war. The simplest answer is the right one in this case.

[nickpp]

> It is completely disconnected from reality.

Russian conquest wars in the last 30 years: Chechnya 1994–1996 and 1999–2009, Georgia 2008 (Abkhazia and South Ossetia) & Ukraine (2014 - today).

> Ukrainian neutrality lead to peace.

When Russians invaded Donbas in 2014, Ukraine actually had a non-aligned, neutral status. It only invited the Russians as they perceived it as weakness. Ukriaine's effort to join NATO was in hope of gaining a defense umbrella.

[hackinthebochs]

To call them "conquest wars" is just a-historical self-serving nonsense.

>When Russians invaded Donbas in 2014, Ukraine actually had a non-aligned, neutral status.

They had a non-aligned status up until the moment their elected government was overthrown. At that point Ukraine's status is undefined. How was the government overthrown you ask? A US regime change operation: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1ghs32...

[nickpp]

No.

Government was overthrown in February 2014, the Ukrainian parliament renounced Ukraine's non-aligned status in December 2014 while Russia annexed Crimea in February/March 2014 and attacked Donbas in April 2014 - all while while Ukraine was still neutral and non-aligned.

> US regime change operation

I haven't seen any actual proof for that, only speculation like what you are linking to.

LE:

And you'd need some strong proof considering that everything that happened afterwards completely vindicated Ukrainian people's fear of Russia and their desire to get closer to the West.

As someone who lives in Eastern Europe and who also lived through a bloody revolution to get out from under the Russian boot - let me tell you: we don't need external influences to desire to live in peace and freedom, to pursue our happiness and prosperity. We are just like you, people of the West, in that regard. We don't want to live under Russian occupation any more than you do and we are willing to pay the blood price for the privilege.

[int_19h]

If Russia wants safety from NATO, why is it annexing territory that brings its borders closer to NATO?

[hackinthebochs]

Safety from NATO means being in a strong defensive position with respect to NATOs ability to project force. This isn't just about proximity, but about control of strategic resources. The US pushed Turkey through NATO ascension because access to the Black Sea was deemed strategically valuable in an eventual war with the USSR. Russia needs to counter that threat and losing the port in Crimea would be a strategic blunder.

[int_19h]

They have had the port in Crimea since 2014. They still wanted more.

Hell, when they started the war, it was supposedly about "demilitarization". By now they have officially annexed four more regions of Ukraine (well, the parts they control) in addition to Crimea, two of which wasn't even occupied until 2022.

[microtonal]

This is a false narrative that Putin propagates all the time (besides that Ukraine is run by nazis) and is not supported by history. He did attack Georgia and Chechnya. There was no danger at all of these countries joining NATO anytime soon.

At any rate, it has been a severe miscalculation on Putin's part. He thought they could take Ukraine in days and the aggression led Finland and Sweden to join NATO.

[hackinthebochs]

>This is a false narrative that Putin propagates all the time

It turns out that bad people do speak the truth sometimes, at least when the truth is in their corner:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1ghs32...

[kelnos]

That "truth" is speculative fiction. Nothing more than unsubstantiated conspiracy-theory nonsense.

[int_19h]

If EU dies, Russia will keep selling its oil and gas to European countries, but the latter will be more divided when it comes to negotiating prices. As a large business, you want your customers to be as powerless as possible so that you can jack up prices as high as you can.

[blashyrk]

> The EU was holding world peace.

I can't fathom where you got that from.

> Iraq, war on oil. Isreal funded by US arms

All true, and the EU complicit in all of those. Maybe not by choice (see remark about sovereignty at the end), but complicit nonetheless. You also forgot Syria, Yemen, Yugoslavia and probably a few others as well.

> Russia owns Trump and Russia wants the EU dead.

Sorry, but this is not Reddit.

> By no means should the EU get cosy with the US.

The EU has no choice other than be "cosy" with the US. It's called Pax Americana.

In simple terms, the deal is this and always has been this since WW2 ended: the EU has traded political sovereignty for security, to and from the US.

[doublerabbit]

> Russia owns Trump and Russia wants the EU dead.

What's Reddit to do with anything? Trump is a failed businessman.

His business have failed and Russia bought him out. This was evident back in 2008 and it's evident now and ever since the 80's.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helpe...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_projects_of_Donald_...

Russia wants Trump as his backhand man and that's what they got. America wants freedom yet at the same time they're happy to accept brokerage from a man who dreams of an neo-USSR.

> I can't fathom where you got that from.

world peace was a rush mix of words. What I mean at least they held stability of the world stage.

> EU is complicit

I'm not saying the EU is a saint. The EU has an agenda and evils of its own. But as a figurehead and representation of many countries up on the world stage it held a positive power.

Countries could count on the nation for relief unlike any other.