[snickerbockers]

That's the problem with this statement: Trump is not Hitler and any hypothetical "undemocratic outcomes" aren't apparent in the extreme short term. He hasn't run on a platform of eliminating democracy and there isn't any indication at this point that he will.

[jamincan]

I've not been as immersed in the presidential race, but hasn't he explicitly said he wants to be a dictator, this is the last vote you will need, we should stop so and so from voting and so on? Like, right out of his mouth? How is that not an undemocratic platform?

[snickerbockers]

> he wants to be a dictator

The full quote was that he was going to be a dictator but only on the first day. It's probably one of the dumbest things he's ever said, but the fact that he put a limit on his own supposed dictatorship contradicts him being a dictator. At any rate, while I'm not a fan of what he said, he definitely did not preclude the continuation of American democracy even if interpreted in the most literal possible way.

> this is the last vote you will need

He said that you [the people at his rally] aren't going to need to vote anymore because hes going to accomplish all his goals this time. Not that there won't be a vote or that his supporters won't be allowed to vote. They definitely won't be allowed to vote for him since he'll be at up against the term limit.

> we should stop so and so from voting and so on

This one I've never even heard before outside of him claiming that his opponents want to let non citizens vote

[ks2048]

I believe people who claim he will "end democracy" do not believe he will literally put an end to elections. Many places widely considered "undemocratic" also have elections.

> They definitely won't be allowed to vote for him since he'll be at up against the term limit.

I'm sure if Trump were younger and up against term limits, he (and his party) would simply ignore them or change the rules. That's the kind of democracy-ending actions that could easily happen. Lucky for us, I think he's too old for this particular problem.

[BadHumans]

Trump is not the end he is the means to an end. His party will absolutely change the rules just to take advantage of them in the future.

[onlyrealcuzzo]

He ran on a platform that he won the 2020 election, and it was stolen.

How is that not anti-democratic?

[ImJamal]

You are going with the assumption that the election wasn't stolen. If you are correct then Trumo would be taking an anti-democratic position. If the people's will was genuinely to elect him and the election was actually stolen then he would be taking the democratic position.

[davrosthedalek]

Not quite. If he actually believes that the election was stolen, whether or not it was, it would be a democratic position. He would be right or wrong, but that doesn't change that his goal would be to protect democracy.

If he actually believes the election was not stolen, whether or not it was, but act as if it was stolen, it would be un-democratic position, because he would, is his perceived reality, try to subvert a democratic process.

[lofenfew]

People can adapt their beliefs to be convenient to them. In fact, people's beliefs usually correspond to whatever is most convenient. If he should have known that the election was not stolen, then claiming otherwise would be undemocratic, regardless of his true beliefs (which are unknowable anyways).

[logicchains]

If he and his supporters genuinely believe that, it's an extremely democratic position.

[wyre]

Remind me what its called when someone's geniune belief's don't align with reality?

[wyatt_dolores]

He has literally said "Vote for me, and you'll never have to vote again."

[Izkata]

That's out of context. He was trying to reach people who just don't vote in general, telling them they only needed to bother this one time and he'll fix their problems (costs, economy, etc) so well they can go back to not bothering to vote.

[vel0city]

Yeah, they'll be so "fixed" nobody will have the ability to "unfix" them.

[BadHumans]

He absolutely said vote for me and you'll never have to vote again because we'll have it fixed. How is that not running on eliminating democracy?

[Sabinus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capito...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_...

This stuff was not merely spicy words, it was dangerous. Democracy runs on norms and good people, and is precious and hard won. Trump being in power is a risk.

[ks2048]

He said many times very explicitly he will be a dictator on day one. We'll find out in a few months what the means exactly. I honestly don't know.

[bspammer]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-tells-christians-they...

[formerly_proven]

> hasn't run on a platform of eliminating democracy

Didn't he literally say in his victory speech that he's now elected the 47th president, as he also was the 46th?

In the story Trump tells, he literally already is a third-term president.

[dazilcher]

He did not say that [1]. I can't decide whether people keep misrepresenting his statements intentionally, or there's some psychological process in play that prevents them from parsing his speech. He is a terrible communicator after all.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI9fbbQ-aTo&t=96s

[rightbyte]

He speaks backwards and from the inside out of sentences. Changes subject mid sentence. Etc.

I think normal people think that is OK but academics thinks it sounds stupid.

In the beginning I believe he got a boost from journalists feeling smart by nitpicking that to manufacture some "gotcha". He is way to easy to misquote to resist the temptation.

[FractalHQ]

What about when he said he wanted to be dictator so people wouldn’t have to vote anymore? And when he made himself above the law with MAGA court justices? Or talked about a firing squad for his opponents and opening fire on peaceful protestors? Or when he attempted a violent coup on the White House? Or when he praised Hitler and asked for generals like Hitlers that will do anything he says without question? Or when he praised Putin, Kim Jun Un, and other the dictators of the world?

[dsmithn]

“Except for day one”

[kristiandupont]

He literally tried to overthrow the election 4 years ago. I mean, he wasn't exactly being subtle about it!

[Jensson]

But in the end he didn't end Democracy, he let the democratic procedures take place, a fascist wouldn't do that.

> He literally tried to overthrow the election 4 years ago

Not openly, the people who went to the white house weren't under Trumps command. He argued against the election result using the proper tools of the democracy, you are allowed to do that.

I'm not sure why worry now when we already know he handed over the power once. Maybe it wasn't willingly but he will be forced to step down in 4 years as well.

[Zak]

The call to Brad Raffensperger asking him to "find" votes has been public for years. I'm in disbelief that anyone could listen to that conversation and conclude it was anything but an attempt to steal the election.

[Jensson]

Trying to cheat a few votes isn't more fascist than gerrymandering, it is corrupt but it isn't fascism.

If he had rigged the whole election I'd say it is fascism, but rigging a whole election is on such a different scale and planning and conspiracy level that it isn't the same thing, he didn't even try to rig the election. If he tried to rig it then it wouldn't be one such call, it would be hundreds with many accomplices.

[CyberDildonics]

Trying to cheat a few votes

This is some pretty hardcore rationalization even by modern standards. Trying to "cheat a few (10s of thousands of votes so you win a swing state)" is called trying to steal an election.

but rigging a whole election is on such a different scale and planning and conspiracy level that it isn't the same thing, he didn't even try to rig the election.

He literally did from many different angles. Asking for changed vote counts, fake electors, 60 court cases with no evidence, planning violence to stop the certification of the election.

How do you square what you are saying with these facts?

[Zak]

> 60 court cases with no evidence

That's the one thing in the list I'm OK with. Determining whether a claim has legal merit and factual basis is what courts are for.

[Zak]

Trump also made calls to officials in other swing states he lost attempting to change the result. They weren't as public and damning, but had several of them been successful after all was said and done, it would have rigged the whole election.

[kristiandupont]

> he let the democratic procedures take place, a fascist wouldn't do that.

He did so because he had no other choice. Mike Pence, of all people, rescued democracy. If it hadn't been for him, Donald Trump would not accepted the transfer of power.

And this is what the difference boils down to. You and I both know that Trump would have declared himself the winner no matter what the vote count had been. And we also both know that Harris is going to concede to Trump because the vote count says so.

[Jensson]

Luckily it isn't the presidential candidates who decides the winner, so it doesn't matter who Trump or Harris thinks the winner is.

[kristiandupont]

True, but it still negates your claim that "He hasn't run on a platform of eliminating democracy".

[Xeamek]

>But in the end he didn't end Democracy, he let the democratic procedures take place, a fascist wouldn't do that.

Fascist wouldn't fail?

Again, You know Hitler literally tried a coup, failed and then switched to 'democratic' means?

[Jensson]

> Again, You know Hitler literally tried a coup, failed and then switched to 'democratic' means?

Hitler never left the seat of power once he got it. Trump did. They are not the same. Hitler did a coup to try to get power, he failed at that, Trump already succeeded grabbing power (he got elected) and then left it.

[sentient_aloe]

Which he said he regrets doing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/03/us/politics/trump-pa-rall...

[grugagag]

He didn’t or he couldn’t pull it off?