[contracertainty]

As a European I have to ask - do you really need another argument? If I stand on a platform for government in Europe with an arguably fascist agenda I will get called out as a fascist and will lose. Never mind if I am a convicted felon, rapist, and probable russian intelligence asset. Seriously, what are you guys thinking here? Americans would actually vote for an extreme right wing candiate just to prove a point to the dems? Just to get one over on the libs? Please explain.

[sien]

Giorgia Meloni - President of Italy.

Victor Orban - President of Hungary.

The AfD in Germany got a higher percentage of the vote in Thuringen in Germany than any other party. Currently polling higher than any member of the governing coalition nationally.

Geert Wilders - successful in the Netherlands.

Marine Le Pen - possible next president of France.

The Freedom Party of Austria - has been in government.

These parties all sometimes win in Europe.

[amarcheschi]

In italy happened the same "nooo you can't call them fascist"

Freedom of protest was, in fact, restricted in italy in a way that it affects climate manifestations more than lobbies manifestation - we have taxis striking and blocking cities if someone wants to touch their ungodly privileges -

Journalist striked on the public news because news has become unreliable, propaganda spewing news at a level before unheard of

It didn't happen, but Giorgia meloni wanted to abolish the crime of torture to better allow police to do its work (lmao even)

At the season opening of the teather la scala di Milano, one man shouted "viva l'Italia antifascista" (long live antifacist italy). Police was sent to check his documents and similar intimidatory shit

[indy]

Fascist has become an overused word by the left. Everyone else (the majority of the american voting population it would seem) are tired of the label and tune out anyone who accuses someone of being a fascist. The response from the left has been to double down and accuse more people of fascism.

[kristiandupont]

Trump has called his opponents fascists a million times.

[overallduka]

This word really means nothing at this point, like racist, it's so misused that it has lost its meaning.

[indy]

Yes, and wasn't it silly of him to call his opponents Fascist?

[kristiandupont]

It sure was but you were implying that this was a problem with the left.

[indy]

So maybe the left should reduce their usage of the word? Especially if they want to win over some of the people that voted for Trump in this election?

Just a thought

[kristiandupont]

Yeah, you all keep making that point. But I don't believe for a second that a single voter went with Trump because the libs had called them mean words.

[2muchcoffeeman]

I think there are also a lot of single issue voters who don’t think about the ethics of the candidate or their world view.

How many evangelical Christians just voted for an adulterer and convicted criminal because he’s not pro choice?

[_heimdall]

I live in a very Republican area and know quite a few people who do vote only on the one issue of pro-life. I don't think many of them would actually agree that Trump is an adulterer or a criminal though. They would chalk it up to Democratic lies or political attacks using the legal system as a weapon.

Heck, I know quite a few people who are very strongly religious and somehow view Trump as a good Christian candidate. That one really blows my mind, unless they've changed the ten commandments entirely since I was growing up.

[graemep]

> I live in a very Republican area and know quite a few people who do vote only on the one issue of pro-life.

it is an important issue.

> Heck, I know quite a few people who are very strongly religious and somehow view Trump as a good Christian candidate. That one really blows my mind, unless they've changed the ten commandments entirely since I was growing up.

What makes it bizarre is not things like adultery (a fundamental tenet of Christianity is that we are all sinners) but that Trump is clearly not a Christian. He does not even know the basics of Christianity - remember when he wished people "Happy Good Friday"?

[_heimdall]

> it is an important issue.

For sure. I don't take issue with anyone voting based on whatever they care about in general. I don't feel strongly enough about one topic to be a single issue voter, but I get it for anyone that does feel that strongly.

> What makes it bizarre is not things like adultery (a fundamental tenet of Christianity is that we are all sinners) but that Trump is clearly not a Christian.

100% agree. No one is perfect and I wouldn't expect anyone who is religious to always fit the bill, but Trump is an example of someone very far from any religious ideals. I was raised Catholic, if Trump were catholic I don't think he would have had time outside of confession to even run for office.

[graemep]

> was raised Catholic, if Trump were catholic I don't think he would have had time outside of confession to even run for office.

That literally made me lough out loud. Raised Catholic too (been an agnostic since, and some sort of Christian and technically if not theologically a Catholic now).

[amarcheschi]

I wouldn't be so sure about the fascist agenda in eu given some recent results of some parties throughout the union

[card_zero]

(Except in Austria, which now has Volkskanzler Herbert Kickl.)

Edit: maybe not, I think they're still in procedural limbo because no other party wants to be in the coalition.

[nervousvarun]

I can't begin to speak for America, my point was about the importance of Independent voters: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/first-us-independent-turnou...

[fch42]

only European but if your choice is binary, you can only make it that way.

Some Americans may well vote for the rightwing candidate because they want to stick it to the left (or whoever the "anti" would be).

Personally, I don't think that alone makes a majority in that binary choice; in Europe, it would mostly end up in the vote for a minor "ultra" party. And less-"anti" conservative voters have other options.

In the US though, as someone with conservative values and views, one always has to choose ... do I want to vote with everyone else who votes for "my" camp including the stick-it-tos (because there's only one option "on my side"), do I not vote, or do I even vote against what feels closer to me because the stick-it-tos vote for them as well, and/or their head on the ticket is clearly one of the stick-it-tos ?

Am I glad I needn't make that choice. And am I sad what kind of asocial extremes are encouraged by the binary, winner-takes-all US political system.

[graycat]

deleted

[selimthegrim]

>In simple terms, in the US no really good student is short on education due to lack of money.

In the south, at least this is flat wrong

[graycat]

In the south, this is flat right, Memphis State University, University of Tennessee.

[selimthegrim]

I am happy to give you a tour of Louisiana.

[graycat]

Get book on high school algebra, plane geometry, trigonometry, solid geometry, and calulus. Study all of them. Then take tests, e.g., SAT, to confirm excellence. After high school, keep living at home, and get a job, even just mowing grass. Take the money and get a bus ticket to one of the midwestern states and apply to a college, not a university, there. Being a good student with good SAT scores, should be able to get a scholarship with $0 tuition. Or work hard, make all As, and then ask for a scholarship, use a work-study program, etc. Go to the available offices and see what programs they have for low or no cost schooling. Then with a high GPA, apply to grad school -- $0, zip, zilch tuition. Get a Masters in something. Let the Masters confirm excellence and f'get about the quality of the high school or even the college.

A niece got PBK at Indiana University, went to Harvard Law, got first job at Cravath, Swaine, & Moore. Left for an MD, and has been practicing since then. Suspect she spent very little on tuition.

As a first grad student in math at Indiana University, I got paid for teaching, had a nice single dorm room, actually lived well, and saved some money.

There are a lot of buttons to push, strings to pull, to get low cost or free college, then free through Ph.D. Being a good student, good SAT scores, already know calculus well, all can help.

[selimthegrim]

I had to teach a doctor’s daughter from Alexandria who showed up to my physics recitation not knowing what a function was, despite having taken AP calculus AB. And how did this happen in the public schools in Alexandria? Because the gym teacher taught it and everyone got 1s. Furthermore, the school board gets bonuses for kids taking AP tests and teaching gifted classes and then hands the teaching jobs out to their sycophant favorite teachers

[stillold]

Now try and add some evidence?

[graycat]

Right. In the US, on politics and the issues, getting the information and "evidence" is a really big problem.

I have and/or have seen good evidence for all that I mentioned, but such evidence is NOT wanted by or common in the media which means that I have no well written, comprehensive, single reference to give.

Uh, YOU try: Write a document with good evidence, details, quotes, video clips, etc., and see how much interest the US MSM (mainstream media) has in publishing it!!! I predict you will regard your effort, no matter how carefully done, as a waste of time.

E.g., so far I've never seen even one credible graph over, say, the last 16 years, of, say, the US CPI (consumer price index). Same for budget deficits, spending bills, balance of foreign exchange, Fed loans, spending on the war in Ukraine (was there actually ANY spending or did we, instead, actually just ship war supplies produced in the US?) -- the actual details are absurdly messy, sloppy, missing, etc.

Clearly, bluntly the details do not SELL -- won't get a big audience.

To give good evidence here would exceed by several times the 10,000 bytes or so limit that Hacker News seems to have on a single post.

US media credibility? Here is evidence of biased, cooked up, gang up, pile on, organized mob attack from 2017:

     https://youtu.be/f1ab6uxg908

With that example, there is less than zero credibility. So, for your "evidence", don't expect that from the US media.

I wish, profoundly wish, have posted many times on social media, that the US news media should provide JUST such evidence, at least up to common standards of high school term papers. All that is no more than a spit into the wind -- the media does NOT want to expend bytes for such writing, documentation, evidence, etc.

So, here I did all I can do to respond to the question I quoted, apparently, from a European. Agree or not with what I wrote, but it is the best I can do under the circumstances. The question from Europe are not very deep; so I gave answers of similar depth. The speeches in the election were not very deep. The Trump statements at the economic clubs in Chicago and Detroit were deeper.

That's my explanation, best I can do, take it or leave it.

But, really for an accusation of "Nazi", etc. the "burden of proof is on the accuser". The rape? He said, she said. There in the dressing room of the department store, did she scream and get some witnesses? Nazi? Just what is the evidence that Trump has done anything like the Nazi stuff Hitler did? Felon? He has never gotten a sentence -- if he does, then he can appeal, win the appeal, and show that he is NOT a "convicted felon". So, no sentence. The papers case, the J6 case, the Georgia case, the "hush money" case -- all are falling apart due to appeals, etc. They are NOT legal cases but just efforts to misuse the legal system to have others, as here, believe he is a felon. But with the appeals, e.g., even to the SCOTUS, ALL of the cases are falling apart. My view is that the wrong here is from low level parts of the US legal system and not from Trump.

And where are the arguments about 10+ million illegal immigrants, the inflation, the attacks on US fossil fuel energy, the Ukraine war, the Gaza war, the Lebanon war, the hundreds of missiles from Iran, the promotion of biological men in women's sports, the lies about abortion (Trump sent the issue back to the states to decide), the bans on gas powered cars and trucks, etc.?

[stillold]

Traditional media generally requires having three different independent sources to publish.

You have failed to provide one.

[graycat]

What???? I'm posting on a case of social media and am not a "publisher" and am not writing a column for a "publisher".

Just what was I supposed to do but "failed" at?

[xdennis]

The problem is that it doesn't stick and people see it as desperate.

Trump was very favorable to Israel and has a Jewish daughter. Not typical fascist behavior.

Debbie Dingell said Trump will build internment camps and put her in one. Were were the internment camps in Trump's first term?

[nerdix]

Anti-Semitism isn't an inherit trait of fascism. It's an inherit trait of Nazism.

Mussolini was in power in Italy 10 years before Hitler was in Germany and he wasn't very anti-Semitic at all. He was influenced by Hitler towards the end of his reign but even then his anti-Semitic policies were mild when compared to Germany.

Part of the problem with calling someone a fascist is that people associate the word with Hitler. But Hitler wasn't the only fascist or even the first fascist.

[samatman]

Ok but I believe the topic is Donald Trump who has been directly, repeatedly, relentlessly, compared to Adolph Hitler, and he and his supporters slandered as Nazis. Specifically. Directly, relentlessly, repeatedly.

So perhaps this:

> Part of the problem with calling someone a fascist is that people associate the word with Hitler.

Is not making the point you think it's making.

[card_zero]

He'll definitely go away without a fuss after his second term, right? He isn't considering what could be done about the 22nd amendment. Putin extended his terms in office in creative ways, but Trump isn't Putin and has a high regard for established political mechanisms, even if they mean there will be less importance for Trump at some point in the future.

[colechristensen]

In four years trump isn’t going to be able to speak in complete sentences, much less run for office.

We don’t have to worry about him stealing any more elections, he’s far too old for that to be an issue

[card_zero]

He'll be 3 years younger than Ali Khamenei is now, and 5 years younger than the pope.

[colechristensen]

There is already very clear cognitive decline. I don’t think he’ll be able to function as president in a couple of years.

[ubertaco]

I am less optimistic than you; I don't see how that would matter to the current MAGA movement.

[gg82]

I'm sure Trump will be happy to go into being former president Trump at the end of his term.... if the left let him.

[yencabulator]

What kind of a veiled threat is that? How would "the left" not let a president leave office?

[card_zero]

Is there any source of reassurance about this I can look to, or only your gut feeling?

[Rinzler89]

>Trump was very favorable to Israel and has a Jewish daughter. Not typical fascist behavior

So because Israel is involved in something means that something can't be fascist? What about the fascist things Netanyahu is doing with Israel?

[dotancohen]

Not all nationalism is fascism.

[Rinzler89]

Yeah that's why I called Netanyahus actions fascist.

[carlosjobim]

> As a European

As a European you don't have presidential elections that matter. Executive and legislative power is in the hands of your parliament and the president is a figurehead (if you have one).

If you want to compare your European experience to the USA, you should look at congress and not the presidential elections. You'd probably find the same dynamics there as in your own country, with the exception that the blocs that you have in parliament have been distilled into two parties.

[yencabulator]

My home country has 3 major parties each at about a quarter of the seats, the rest split between about half a dozen others. The various parties have very different views, only one of them I'd argue is "right wing" in the US sense, and they've all mostly learned to make compromises and not be too divisive, or they face a more moderate party taking their seats.

US two-party system really is the weird one.

[carlosjobim]

Every European parliament will form into a "government" bloc and an "opposition" bloc after the election. Right wing / left wing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. The US congress does manage to make bi-partisan bills. Because members of congress can go against their party sometimes. In European parliaments that kind of behaviour usually results in a crisis of government and a vote of confidence.

> or they face a more moderate party taking their seats

That's not right. You cannot lose your parliament seat in any European parliament until the next election. If an MP or an entire party in Europe is too divisive, they might not be able to be part of a majority and they will be in opposition.

In the USA, the executive government is not elected by parliament - so you're comparing apples to oranges. The president builds the executive government after being elected by the people in the states. That's something different.