[ike2792]

Hiring manager here. The best way to negotiate is to have multiple offers. Hiring is not fun on our side either. Hundreds of candidates with mostly-identical resumes apply for every open posting. Evaluating resumes and interviewing is a huge time suck. Unless we're at the absolute top of the pay band for the role I'd rather give an extra $10K to someone than go back to the pool, but only under two conditions. One, the applicant has to be rated very highly by the interview panel, not just "I'd be OK with hiring this person." Second, I have to believe that there is a reasonable chance the applicant will actually walk away if I don't raise their offer.

[jghn]

People can & will walk away for reasons other than competing offer. It also depends on how badly they want to get a new job. I both have and have seen others interview on the basis of "sure, why not" and if the pot isn't sweet enough then whatever.

That said, people in this position should cite how sweet that pot needs to be upfront instead of after the fact. But that doesn't always happen.

[bdavisx]

But see - that's part of "negotiation" too - you need to make them want you before you hit them with higher demands. If you're up-front you might not even get the interview.

[jghn]

If I know what will make me leave my current job, it's not worth my time to "get the interview" if they won't give me that amount.

Also, as a hiring manager, the one way people found themselves with me saying "That's great, go screw" was when it was clear they were playing us comp-wise by lowballing us to get their foot in the door & then raising the bar once the offer came. That's deceptive, and a character flaw I don't want to deal with in an employee.

Now if you mean keep your cards close to the vest and don't reveal your number until after they give theirs, then I agree. That's good negotiating tactics. But it's not always possible. And now we're back to who is in direr straights: is the candidate willing to walk away if the company demands a number & they don't want to give one? Is the company willing to lose a candidate in this situation? Whomever blinks first wins the day on this one.

[pixelbash]

> when it was clear they were playing us comp-wise by lowballing us to get their foot in the door & then raising the bar once the offer came. Isn’t this just the mirror of a relatively common business practise? At least among smaller companies (maybe non US)

[jghn]

As a candidate, if I detect that happening I also nope out as soon as possible.

[ike2792]

Agreed. Regardless of reason, you need to be prepared to walk away if you are serious about negotiating.

[jghn]

I'll take this a step further and say that the optimal time to be job hunting is *before* you're motivated to find a new job: either wanting to leave your current one or finding yourself unemployed.

People always talk about competing offers, but your negotiating power will never be higher than when you literally don't care if you get an offer or not. If I'm perfectly content in my current gig, the only way I'm leaving is for a *serious* upgrade. And it's no skin off my teeth if I walk away from a bad deal.

[XajniN]

Unless you’re seeking your first job in a specific industry, this advice is the most valuable in this thread. Competing offers are beneficial only if you’re already a well-known figure in your niche.

[BobaFloutist]

Not really, you just have to convince them they are.

Sometimes you're desperate for a job and they have you over a barrel, but there's no reason they need to know that.